2008 World Championship

[Ruslan]

Interview from Ecclestone: https://www.grandprix.com/news/hamilton ... stone.html

Main points of interest:

1. Ecclestone says he and Max Mosley knew long before the outbreak of the 'crashgate' scandal in 2009 that the deliberate crash had occurred.

"We decided not to do anything," he said. "We wanted to protect the sport and save it from a huge scandal.

"That's why I used the tongue of an angel to persuade my former driver Nelson Piquet to keep quiet for the time being," Ecclestone told f1-insider.com.

2. But if the scandal had broken within 2008, Hamilton may ultimately have not gone on to beat Ferrari's Massa by a single point.

"Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification was untouchable after the FIA awards ceremony at the end of the year," Ecclestone said.

"So Hamilton was presented with the cup and everything was fine."

But Ecclestone now thinks the results of the Singapore race should have been nullified by Piquet's deliberate act of sabotage - which would have given the title to Massa.

"We had enough information at the time to investigate the matter," Ecclestone admits. "According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions.

"That means it would never have happened for the world championship standings. And Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.



So... Ecclestone is now openly admitting that him and Mosley knew of the deliberate crash and intervened to hush it up. If they had not done that, Massa would have been world champion.

Hmmmm......

[MonteCristo]

You make it sound like F1 can be a bit suss at times...

*raises eyebrow*

[PTRACER]

So... Ecclestone is now openly admitting that him and Mosley knew of the deliberate crash and intervened to hush it up. If they had not done that, Massa would have been world champion.

Well, anyone who's still willing to get into bed with Putin is likely to be party to corruption themselves.

Besides, I can't see how they could have successfully cancelled the whole Grand Prix or nullified the race results over this.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Out of interest I dug out the GP thread running here for that race back in 2008 to see what our discussions lluded to at the exact moment

Not one of us thought anything untoward about the crash. The nearest we got to a race fix call was relating to PKJunior as expected running out of talent.

Our discussions were more aimed at penalties and the age old gripe of FIA inconsistencies with previous events. That and the Ferrari clown dance that was relating to Massa's actual botched stop when he dragged the fuel line down pitlane. That was what we were blaming the potential championship losing race for Massa on.

@PTRACER was first to blame the way the SC rules were written back then, although that was more about the ensuing penalties and the fact that as a result many drivers had their races compromised as a direct result..

It was picked though by a former poster / member that there was an obvious benefit in getting a first fuel stop in prior to the SC deployment that I guess had been mentioned in commentary.


Here is a link to the thread if any others want to look. (Link goes straight to the page where the race starts) :viewtopic.php?t=9283&start=45

[Michael Ferner]

Interesting link, given that I was not following F1 at all at the time. But, Ferrari incompetence was already well known in 2008, it seems...

Even without Binotto

[Everso Biggyballies]

Interesting link, given that I was not following F1 at all at the time. But, Ferrari incompetence was already well known in 2008, it seems...

Even without Binotto

At the risk of going off topic of the 2008 Singapore race fix.....

Strangely enough we only ever hear of the wondrous work of the Brawn Todt era at Ferrari...... but even they screwed up, as with Irvines famous stop in Germany (European GP) 1999. One of the best ever, sat in pitlane for something like 40 seconds whilst the team pondred what tyres to fit and not knowing where they were anyway

Not sure if this was in your sabbatical years Michael, but this clip is in German so you get the whole picture. As an aside the BAR split livery, currently under discussion in another thread, gets shown off in this clip

For others it was a case of Ferrari getting confused over a double stop first for Salo to change a nose and then Irvine, their championship hope that year, pitting to find they had assemble a mix of wet and dry tyres for him and a committee meeting taking place to work out where either the missing dry or wet rubber was and what was actually wanted in the changing conditions.

Ross Brawn, the team's much vaunted technical director, accepted responsibility for the uncharacteristic blunder. "We screwed up and it was my fault,"

[Michael Ferner]

Yeah, I remember it. I still followed F 1 until some time in 2001, I think. And it wasn't the only snafu for Brawn, either - remember when a Benetton went up in flames during a pit stop? I also recall a Ferrari pit stop with Chin that went completely bananas.

[Ruslan]

You make it sound like F1 can be a bit suss at times...

*raises eyebrow*

Yea, 2008 and 2021.

[Ruslan]

Out of interest I dug out the GP thread running here for that race back in 2008 to see what our discussions lluded to at the exact moment

Not one of us thought anything untoward about the crash. The nearest we got to a race fix call was relating to PKJunior as expected running out of talent.

I was on a different board at that time, but I don't recall at the time anyone claiming that Piquet deliberately crashed. That really was not an issue until 2009. So yea.... Bernie and Max were in position to sweep this one under the table, and now Bernie is saying that they did that in 2008. Nice little point to add to the bios of two of more unsavory characters in F1 history.

[Ruslan]

Besides, I can't see how they could have successfully cancelled the whole Grand Prix or nullified the race results over this.

That is the challenge and I suspect that is the reason that Bernie and Max did not do so (assuming Bernie is telling the truth here... which is always suspect). I kind of doubt that they would have cancelled the whole Grand Prix, but they easily could have docked Alonso his win as it was done by using a cheat. That would have bumped Rosberg in a Williams to the win and bumped Hamilton from 3rd to 2nd (+2 championship points). It would not have helped Massa at all.

To have worked to Massa's advantage they would have had to cancel the whole Grand Prix, which I don't think is something they have ever done in their 70+ years of F1.

[PTRACER]

Besides, I can't see how they could have successfully cancelled the whole Grand Prix or nullified the race results over this.

That is the challenge and I suspect that is the reason that Bernie and Max did not do so (assuming Bernie is telling the truth here... which is always suspect). I kind of doubt that they would have cancelled the whole Grand Prix, but they easily could have docked Alonso his win as it was done by using a cheat. That would have bumped Rosberg in a Williams to the win and bumped Hamilton from 3rd to 2nd (+2 championship points). It would not have helped Massa at all.

To have worked to Massa's advantage they would have had to cancel the whole Grand Prix, which I don't think is something they have ever done in their 70+ years of F1.

@PTRACER was first to blame the way the SC rules were written back then, although that was more about the ensuing penalties and the fact that as a result many drivers had their races compromised as a direct result..

Here is a link to the thread if any others want to look. (Link goes straight to the page where the race starts) :viewtopic.php?t=9283&start=45

Interesting to read that after all this time. I don't think any of us at the time were suspicious of Piquet's crash, in fact it seemed normal or even expected.

The rules I was probably complaining about were the closure of the pitlane when the SC comes out, which made absolutely no sense to me at the time and still doesn't now. A car that's low on fuel is low on fuel, what's the use in penalising them because they needed to pit.

I'll correct myself though. Massa didn't lose the championship all by himself. His pitcrew helped him lose it, when they sent him out of the pits with the fuel hose still attached. (They manually operated the green light on their electronic lollipop and off he went). Without that, it wouldn't have mattered what games Renault or the FIA were trying to play.

[Star]

Can you imagine how Massa is feeling if he's seen all of this? I still recall watching the Brazilian season ending race that year, I still had F1 live back then. Massa crossed the line as the champion, then the rain meant Hamilton got by Glock in the Toyota and, as Massa would see it, stole it from him. I recall his utter devastation as that reality hit him, it wasn't nice to see.

So yeah, this isn't great news. If they knew it was deliberate and did nothing about it, shame on them!!

[erwin greven]

And Glock could not pit because the pitlane was blocked by masses of people.

[XcraigX]

This is Bernie's feeble attempt at staying relevant. They could have easily punished Renault without affecting the championship if they had done it immediately at the time.
I believe the real story is somewhere in between here. They may have suspected an issue, but did not seek proof for several weeks later and did not want the embarrassment of having to change the race result to exclude Renault team. I also agree they would never throw out the entire race.

[Everso Biggyballies]

This is Bernie's feeble attempt at staying relevant. They could have easily punished Renault without affecting the championship if they had done it immediately at the time.
I believe the real story is somewhere in between here. They may have suspected an issue, but did not seek proof for several weeks later and did not want the embarrassment of having to change the race result to exclude Renault team. I also agree they would never throw out the entire race.

This.... Bernie must be getting ready to release a book. A Max and I are the only people aware of this (and Max is no longer with us to back my story up) type of scenario.... Dont spoil a good story for the sake of the truth.

As Craig said, Bernie trying to remain relevant with something where the only witness to his 'revelation' is dead.

What should have happened is Renault should have been DSQ'd from the Championship and results. ie Alonso loses the Singapore win and elevate those lower up a place ie Rosberg Hamilton and Glock on the podium A race win for Williams! So what if Renault got the sulks nd withdrew from F1.