Future GP's stuff, Hosting Fees and Misc Liberty / GP discussion

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2287
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#16

Post by Aty »

Bottom post of the previous page:

The seven British-based Formula 1 teams have asked the government to help ease post-Brexit border crossing and permit problems and are hopeful of a solution, Alpine principal Otmar Szafnauer said on Wednesday.
This is low hanging fruit to make comments on the forum. Strangely, British daily newspapers (I have seen) seems to ignore it.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/06 ... otorsport/
User avatar
Vassago
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3494
Joined: 20 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1, IndyCar
Favourite Driver: Senna, Clark, Montoya
Favourite Circuit: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Location: Poland

#17

Post by Vassago »

The stench of Brexit's invisible benefits might be so big even the UK tabloids are willing to pretend such thing never happened? ;)
07.04.1968 - Flower of Scotland when will we see your like again?
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49406
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#18

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I guess this is covered by Future GP stuff ss bing for this thread, and we have some news on what at this stage are 'possible maybe' events. One sounds like it might happen, the other one, well,the country should have GP given its place in Grand Prix History.

OK which do I start with..... I was talikng about GP History and this country I was talking of having a place, almost a right to a GP.. Obviously I am talking of France, the land where the act of Grand Prix racing started well over a hundred years ago. Well the dropkick they have for a President wants them to have another GP. Sadly not at a circuit (although gladly not at Magny Bores and probably glad not at Ricard where we returned for a few years. No, he wants what seems to be the fashion and something we havee too many of anyway.....

Macron backs push for return of French GP

French President Emmanuel Macron has indicated that he wants Formula 1 to return to his country – with a street race in Nice a possible candidate.

Image

Lets say up front even in recent years when we raced at Ricard there were murmurings of a street race to be held in Nice being aired, but the French GP dropped off the calendar after last years race, and tbh no one missed in in the increasing hustle and bustle calendar we now have to endure.

Of course having a supportive PM doesnt mean it will happen. Too many folks think that paying for a GP and its running costs pees in the face of the ever increasing costs of basic needs, but here are a few details of the plan as it has been hatched.
According to the newspaper Nice-Matin, Nice mayor Christian Estrosi recently wrote to Macron asking for his support and stressing the importance of the French GP.

He responded favourably and gave Estrosi and FFSA president Nicolas Deschaux the responsibility of dealing with F1/Liberty Media and launching a feasibility study for the return of the race, while not committing to a particular venue. Both men were previously involved in getting the event to Paul Ricard.

Macron wrote: "Be sure that I fully share your ambition. Indeed, as you point out, our country must be able, like the other major international sporting events it organises every year, to reconnect with F1, for the pleasure of all.

“It is an issue of attractiveness for our country, the influence of our automotive industry and innovation to support the decarbonisation of this sector."

He added: “As such, you will be able to study the different possible location options [in France], identifying for each their economic model, their compatibility with our ecological commitments and their possible contribution to regional and national development.

“In this context, you will focus on engaging in discussions with the holders of the rights to F1.”

Estrosi’s Nice connections make it an obvious candidate, and it remains to be seen which other cities are given serious consideration.

Macron’s backing is significant, as current Paul Ricard boss Jean Alesi believes that the venue’s disappearance from the calendar was hastened by a lack of political support.

“The problem with F1 in France is not with the circuit, it’s with the politics,” he said.

“It’s probably the only F1 Grand Prix that’s never had a president come to watch it – except for at Magny-Cours once, when [Francois] Mitterrand attended as part of his political wish for the race to be there.

“Since then, it’s never happened. The problem is not with the circuit; the problem is the wish of the country. My other job is a F1 Ambassador, so my link to F1 is direct – with no bullshit – and they are very clear about that.”

An F1 source noted that the organisation is open to discussions with Macron’s team to run the race in “an iconic French location.”

Meanwhile in a related story on Wednesday the Nice Cote d’Azur metropolitan authorities agreed to pay €5m to help the Public Interest Group of the French GP organisation pay off a €27m debt that it had accrued from the Paul Ricard events.

The move was not without controversy, especially as it came before the delivery of an audit into the activities of the organisation, which is due at the end of the month.

"There is no question of paying an advance of 5 million when there are potential irregularities,” EELV [ecology] MP Fabrice Decoupigny told Nice-Matin.

“You don't vote without knowing. They put the knife to our throat, while at the same time, Christian Estrosi increases the tram ticket by 70% and stops subsidies for electromobility."

One local mayor said: "I asked for the list of creditors, I got nothing. And then, an advance means that we can give more than 5 million. This is enormous in view of the efforts we are asking of our fellow citizens whose taxes have already increased."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/macro ... /10495434/

It doesnt really spark up thoughts in my mind that an F1 race type of funding is going to happen. Personally I am putting this in a "Tell 'em they are dreamin' file. But stranger things have happened.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49406
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#19

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Now this next one in the news seems like it might happen. Maybe not as an additional race but as an instead of venue for the Spanish GP.

It seems just as they return the Catalunya track to something half reasonable with the burying of the Health and Safety chicane we had at the end of the lap, and returning to possibly the fastest last couple of turns on the calendar.

Worse still it is apparently all but signed we will be heading to the streets of Madrid for the Spanish GP in a couple of years after the Catalunya contract expires..

Madrid F1 race a step closer as venue boss claims deal is close

A Formula 1 race in Madrid is a step closer to reality after the boss of the proposed venue insisted that he knows when a deal will be signed.

José Vicente de los Mozos, the president of the executive committee of the IFEMA fairgrounds and convention centre located to the northeast of the Spanish capital.

Opened in 1991 IFEMA has become a major centre for conferences and conventions, and there is enough land in and around it to form the basis of a race circuit, with the existing buildings called into use.

It is operated by a consortium of public bodies, consisting of the city council of Madrid (31%), the regional administration of the community of Madrid (31%), the Madrid Chamber of Commerce (31%) and the Montemadrid Foundation (7%).

Since March it has been the host of the officially-sanctioned and well-received F1 Exhibition, which in effect has served to help the city to stake its claim for a race event. (pic below)
Image

Of course who could forget when we last had two GPs in Spain. A nightmare. Yes, the dreadful and thankfully short lived Valencian (or European GP as it officially was tagged). Nasty.

Fernando enjoyed the last Valencia race though..... and Kimi got to drink some champagne so he was happy. And some bloke called Michael got his last ever podium there.
Image
Thing is this Mozos bloke implies its all in place and just needs a squiggle on a piece of paper to be fact. Valencia too dreamed of it being a huge tourist magnet to the Valencian region. So much so they build a new International airport at Valencia to deal with all these potential tourists. That never materialised. I think the Valencian Mayor ended up in jail with frud charges.
“I know when we're going to sign it and when we're going to do it," said de los Mozos of a future race deal in comments reported by Europa Press.

He added: “We have followed the process indicated to us. The Spanish Automobile Federation has been informed from the first moment, we have signed exclusivity, and now we are advancing with the contract.”

He noted that the event would generate €500m for the region and that it would be “not a race, but an experience - the best in Europe.”
Barcelona has a deal to run the Spanish GP until 2026, and it’s not yet clear if the plan is for the new event to eventually take over the title, or if it will run as the Madrid GP.

Speaking to F1’s own Beyond the Grid podcast recently CEO Stefano Domenicali played down the prospects of a race in Madrid while acknowledging the sport's current boom in Spain.
“It is true that Madrid wants to host a race in the future,” he said. “And no decision has been taken so far. That's another great sign of the state of the health of F1.

"And this is the right competition that will not involve at all any political discussion, only commercial and technical and sporting discussion we'll be taking the next couple of months.

“And for the best of F1 we will take the right decision. I'm sure about it. But we need to remember that we still have years of contract with Barcelona, and we are really very, very happy with the way that Barcelona is handling the future because, of course, this has helped them to react, to push for the improvement that is needed at all levels, everywhere.

“And then this, of course, is in a moment where we have Fernando [Alonso] performing incredibly well, and we have Carlos Sainz in Ferrari. Both of them have a lot of fans.

"We see that the TV rating figure is growing incredibly well in Spain. So the market is very, very strong now. And so that's great that we have these kinds of hopes for the future.”

While Spain briefly sustained two events in Barcelona and Valencia Domenicali insisted that times have changed and that it is unlikely that it would happen again.

“In that time the business was not so big,” he said. “And [we still had] a European-centric calendar. Today we have a worldwide calendar approach, with bigger and more races, for sure.

“But I think that in Europe even in the future I'm expecting to see races where the rotational principle could be applied, but not two in the same year.”
The Madrid area previously hosted F1 when the Spanish GP was held at Jarama, to the east of the city and not much further away from the centre than the new venue.

The track first held the race in 1968, initially alternating with Montjuich Park in Barcelona, which co-incidentally like the proposed new venue was a street track adjacent to an exhibition facility.

Montjuich was closed after the tragic 1975 race and Jarama briefly became the permanent site of the Spanish GP until it held its last F1 event in 1981. The race was later revived at Jerez in 1986 before moving to its current home in 1991.


What are they going to ditch to fit two additional GP's in ? Miami please. And ditch something from the Middle East. Of course between Liberty and their lust for anything American, and the commercial side of F1 will be unlikely to give up on the many tens of millions in hosting fees they each generate.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Michael Ferner
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3531
Joined: 7 years ago
Real Name: Michael Ferner
Favourite Racing Car: Miller '122', McLaren M23
Favourite Driver: Billy Winn, Bruce McLaren
Car(s) Currently Owned: None
Location: Bitburg, Germany

#20

Post by Michael Ferner »

Nice, of course, has a great tradition of hosting Grand Prix races, and Christian Estrosi is a legend of the sport. However, these days that's merely business news and I can't get excited about it. [why don't we have a yawning smiley?]
2023 'Guess The Pole' Points & Accuracy Champion

If you don't vote now against fascism, you may never have that chance again...


Ceterum censeo interruptiones essent delendam.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49406
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#21

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Michael Ferner wrote: 9 months ago Nice, of course, has a great tradition of hosting Grand Prix races, and Christian Estrosi is a legend of the sport. However, these days that's merely business news and I can't get excited about it. [why don't we have a yawning smiley?]
I was going to mention of the Nice history, had a video of the 1946 GP sorted, talking of wonderful cars like Maserati, Delahaye, Bugatti and Talbot Lagos.....and then realised it was a bit superfluous to an already lengthy post. Im treading on dangerous ground here but I have a vague idea this was actually the first F1 race as such. (Awaits correction from Michael :whistling: )

But you had to mention the History of the Nice GP's and make me feel guilty of omitting it. :haha:

Actually as Michael mentioned Nice has a history of Motor Sport.... going back to much earlier than 1946.....
The first man to break the 120 km/hr land speed barrier did so in Nice on the Promenade des Anglais in 1902......during the Rothschild Cup. Achieved by Leon Serpollet and it involved an Easter Egg and a lot of steam. (Thats what he called the car, and Steam was the power source :wink: ). .

Image

They also held Paris>Nice Rallyes. The Nice GP I think started in the early thirties.then as a Formula Libre race before the F1 tag came along in 1946

Anyway its fair to say yes Nice has a certain amount of Motor Sport History

I dont see it continuing under the current plan.




Worth mentioning also that the 1947 (Non Championship) season has some 17 events on the calendar across half a dozen nations!

Grand Prix de Nice22 apr
Grand Prix de Marseille 12 may
Grand Prix du Forez 19 may
Coupe de la Résistance 30 may
Grand Prix des Frontières 8 jun
Coupe René le Bègue 9 jun
Gransden Lodge Trophy 15 jun
Grand Prix du Roussillon 30 jun
Grand Prix de Bourgogne 7 jul
Grand Prix d'Albi 14 jul
Grand Prix des Nations 21 jul
Ulster Trophy 10 aug
Circuit des Trois Villes 25 aug
Grand Prix de Valentino 1 sept
Circuit de Milan 30 sept
Grand Prix du Salon 6 oct
Grand Prix de Penya Rhin 27 oct


Back to the 1946 Nice GP


* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Michael Ferner
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3531
Joined: 7 years ago
Real Name: Michael Ferner
Favourite Racing Car: Miller '122', McLaren M23
Favourite Driver: Billy Winn, Bruce McLaren
Car(s) Currently Owned: None
Location: Bitburg, Germany

#22

Post by Michael Ferner »

Nice's place in racing history is even more important due to the early 20th century "speed weeks" taking place there. Off the top of my head I don't recall now the exact years, but it started in the nineties (of the 19th century, of course) already, and went on in one way or another for many decades, the La Turbie hill climb being the major focal point in later years. As for the "first F1 race" or not, I have no idea, actually. Formula One was just a new name for an old thing, the International Grand Prix Formula which was first formulated in 1908, I think, and effectively existed almost from the start a decade earlier.
2023 'Guess The Pole' Points & Accuracy Champion

If you don't vote now against fascism, you may never have that chance again...


Ceterum censeo interruptiones essent delendam.
User avatar
EB
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1503
Joined: 18 years ago

#23

Post by EB »

Michael Ferner wrote: 9 months ago As for the "first F1 race" or not, I have no idea, actually. Formula One was just a new name for an old thing, the International Grand Prix Formula which was first formulated in 1908, I think, and effectively existed almost from the start a decade earlier.
On Mondays and Wednesdays I consider Turin 1946 to be the first. On Tuesdays and Thursdays it's the 1908 Grand Prix (first one run to the Ostend formula?). On Fridays and the weekend I go for Pau 1948.

That's the fun of a question with no right answer (but lots of wrong ones).
User avatar
XcraigX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2770
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Craig
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34
Favourite Driver: Mario Andretti
Favourite Circuit: Spa-Francorchamps
Car(s) Currently Owned: 2014 BMW 328d

#24

Post by XcraigX »

During my holiday last year, we actually toured through part of Montjuich Park in Barcelona. What a great place to hold a motor race! I wish I could have been then when the GP was held there. But one thing that struck me was there was little to no place to spectate. Perhaps some areas here and there. But most of the track was on a hillside with almost no run-off, let alone space for a grandstand.
:trophy: 2019 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2021 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2022 Picks and Predictions Champion :trophy:
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2287
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#25

Post by Aty »

VASSEUR CLAIMS F1 NEEDS AN AMERICAN DRIVER, NOT TEAM
I am not sure why we need either, but so be it. F1 quality of series should stand on merit of top shelve racing, not on color of driver's passport. McLaren can hire American driver, or so is Ferrari, if Fred thinks that will solve an imaginary problem F1 has.

With all modesty I would suggest to stop manipulating rules several times a season, re-think all those restrictive rules on the books, and improve races, instead tooooo much of flag waving.
User avatar
MonteCristo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10735
Joined: 8 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Openwheel
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34/Protos
Favourite Driver: JV
Favourite Circuit: Road America
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#26

Post by MonteCristo »

F1 needs more teams and drivers. From anywhere.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.

2012 GTP Non-Championship Champion | 2012 Guess the Kai-Star Half Marathon Time Champion | 2018 GTP Champion | 2019 GTP Champion
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2287
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#27

Post by Aty »

Will addition of x-amount of teams and drivers cure current complains voiced on this forum, or procession will be just little longer than it is? We all define problems differently, and therefore "fixes" are different. I tend to be technically focussed, rather than sporting side of it. I think ten teams are fine, technical design, restrictions, etc. are not fine (IMHO).
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1792
Joined: 4 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#28

Post by Ruslan »

Looks like the two new teams will be Andretti and HiTech (and F2 team). About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49406
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#29

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 9 months ago About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.
Hispania /HRT, in essence spawned from Campos Racing, An F3 and GP2 team. IIRC the team was originally accepted as Campos, but to boost their insufficient funding for the project, at the last moment pre their first season in F1 a major shareholding was sold to a Spanish businessman, and as a result what was to be called Campos F1 became Hispania Racing Team (HRT). IIRC Chandok and Senna, the team drivers both DNQ'd / were not granted dispensation to start (way outside the 107% of pole criteria.). They were something like 10 seconds off pole and 4 seconds off the next slowest team ahead of them. They were still last at the next race but were close to the other tailender qualifying times and were allowed to start.

I vaguely remember jokes at the time of their first race something along the lines of their GP2 cars were quicker than their F1 cars. To be fair though I think Campos sold the GP2 side of his business (who became Addax) to finance the initial Campos F1 establishment costs. Maybe it was more that they had the performance of a GP2 car. (Not to be confused with Alonso's famous GP2 engine comment about the Honda engine in his McLaren)

None the less Campos were in 2009 a GP2 and junior Formula Team that for 2010 tried to become an F1 team, though as HRT not Campos.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1792
Joined: 4 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#30

Post by Ruslan »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 9 months ago
Ruslan wrote: 9 months ago About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.
Hispania /HRT, in essence spawned from Campos Racing, An F3 and GP2 team. IIRC the team was originally accepted as Campos, but to boost their insufficient funding for the project, at the last moment pre their first season in F1 a major shareholding was sold to a Spanish businessman, and as a result what was to be called Campos F1 became Hispania Racing Team (HRT). IIRC Chandok and Senna, the team drivers both DNQ'd / were not granted dispensation to start (way outside the 107% of pole criteria.). They were something like 10 seconds off pole and 4 seconds off the next slowest team ahead of them. They were still last at the next race but were close to the other tailender qualifying times and were allowed to start.

I vaguely remember jokes at the time of their first race something along the lines of their GP2 cars were quicker than their F1 cars. To be fair though I think Campos sold the GP2 side of his business (who became Addax) to finance the initial Campos F1 establishment costs. Maybe it was more that they had the performance of a GP2 car. (Not to be confused with Alonso's famous GP2 engine comment about the Honda engine in his McLaren)

None the less Campos were in 2009 a GP2 and junior Formula Team that for 2010 tried to become an F1 team, though as HRT not Campos.
Yes, remember them. Lasted three seasons. Gave us one of the best commentators on Sky TV (Karun Chandhok), the start of Daniel Ricciardo's career, and the other driver to outqualify Sebastian Vettel (Vitantonia Liuzzi). Of course, when I am thinking of F2 teams that move up... I am thinking Ron Dennis and Project Four Racing.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49406
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#31

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 9 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 9 months ago
Ruslan wrote: 9 months ago About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.
Hispania /HRT, in essence spawned from Campos Racing, An F3 and GP2 team. IIRC the team was originally accepted as Campos, but to boost their insufficient funding for the project, at the last moment pre their first season in F1 a major shareholding was sold to a Spanish businessman, and as a result what was to be called Campos F1 became Hispania Racing Team (HRT). IIRC Chandok and Senna, the team drivers both DNQ'd / were not granted dispensation to start (way outside the 107% of pole criteria.). They were something like 10 seconds off pole and 4 seconds off the next slowest team ahead of them. They were still last at the next race but were close to the other tailender qualifying times and were allowed to start.

I vaguely remember jokes at the time of their first race something along the lines of their GP2 cars were quicker than their F1 cars. To be fair though I think Campos sold the GP2 side of his business (who became Addax) to finance the initial Campos F1 establishment costs. Maybe it was more that they had the performance of a GP2 car. (Not to be confused with Alonso's famous GP2 engine comment about the Honda engine in his McLaren)

None the less Campos were in 2009 a GP2 and junior Formula Team that for 2010 tried to become an F1 team, though as HRT not Campos.
Yes, remember them. Lasted three seasons. Gave us one of the best commentators on Sky TV (Karun Chandhok), the start of Daniel Ricciardo's career, and the other driver to outqualify Sebastian Vettel (Vitantonia Liuzzi). Of course, when I am thinking of F2 teams that move up... I am thinking Ron Dennis and Project Four Racing.
Just thinking about it and back in the day it was more or less the the standard ladder to F1 team status, with the likes of Cooper, Brabham, March, Tyrrell, others like Lola and even Lotus came via ports car racing. Of course the 'kit car' era of. F1 where the likes of Frank Williams would buy a chassis from say Brabham, March or others, add a Hewland Gearbox, a DFV or prior to that a Coventry Climax, a set of wheels and tyres from wherever etc and enter a Grand Prix. The likes of Lec, Mezario Hesketh and countless others arrived by that low resource method (often running from a dual purpose shed. (Tyrrell started in aa shed not used by the Timber Yard business... Of course Williams itself as a team spawned from that sort of process but in F3 and F2 through to upgrading to F1.

On the subject of the Tyrrel shed from the Tinber yard, that very building now lives on at Goodwood. More on that here viewtopic.php?t=17765#p450137

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Post Reply