Future GP's stuff, Hosting Fees and Misc Liberty / GP discussion

[Everso Biggyballies]

Ok sorry about the vague thread title but I wanted to post the current Hosting Fees pid by GP, and when each Country / GP has a contract in place until. It was almost a not important for its own thread for the hosting fees alone so I broadened it to include Future GPs and general Liberty stuff.
I looked through 5 pages of existing threads and nothing similar really exists that I could find... By future GPs I also include any new hosting nations that might come along as Liberty push for a 52 GP season with no weeks off.

So all that sort of discussion now has its own place, here. Im sure there will be plenty of misc and general GP info that fits better in a GP thread than mixed in with all the other sort of stuff.

If you want to discuss anything on the specifics of any country I guess here is good too, be it their individual human rights record here is fine too.

OK Explanation made here is a listing of all the current GPs, how much they pay individually to host a GP, and when they have a contract until. First a few observations of same....

Obviously the Middle Eastern and othe human rights challenged 'Sportswashing' GPOs are up the top of the list as they should, but noticed the fees for Australia are #7 on the list at $37million this year. None the less despite fitting all the nasty nation criteria surprised to see Azerbaijan tops the payment list at $57million pa, just pipping Saudi and Qatar.

I also notice that Miami and Vegas are not listed.... is that a Libertyt secret or perhaps its more to do with those events having a different promoter set up than others.... they operate to a different model, where F1 works in conjunction with local promoters, which IIRC might involve other Liberty Group operations. Listed as "Corroberation" because its vague and all encompassing in an I havent got a clue of the specifics sort of way.

Of those on more traditional commercials deals, Monaco has the best at just $20 million annually, though it’s reported the sport also receives a cut of tourist tax to boost that figure. Monaco has always had a special deal which at one time revolved around local production of the TV and broadcast that they provided to the world feed. Like Ferrari Monaco is an anomaly with its own special rules. I guess it is home to most of the drivers at some stage of the year.

The Emilia Romagna Grand Prix has the next lowest fee, followed by the Belgian Grand Prix.... Belgium is of course just a one off deal for this year at the moment, having come in as a late replacement / substitution so has a case for a reduced fee.

Austri and Belgium are both up for renewal this year, with Azerbaijand and Silverstone due next year and then a few more in 2025.

A quick tot up of the total suggests Liberty as commercial rights holders / owners of FOM rake is $711 million per year in hosting fees. And that is without the two US GPs with no amount showing. Thats S33.86 million per event average.


FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX CONTRACTS


Country Circuit Hosting Fee ($) Contract end Notes
Bahrain Sakhir 52 million 2036...... Longest running contract

Saudi Arabia Jeddah 55 million 2030....... May move to Qiddiya in future

Australia Albert Park 37 million 2035

Azerbaijan Baku 57 million 2024....... Planning on 10-year deal

USA Miami Collaboration 2031

Italy Imola 21 million 2025

Monaco Monte Carlo 20 million* 2025........ *10 million + percentage of tourist tax

Spain Barcelona 25 million 2026

Canada Montreal 32 million 2029

Austria Red Bull Ring 25 million 2023........ Extension expected through 2026

Great Britain Silverstone 26 million 2024

Hungary Hungaroring 40 million 2027........ Most expensive European race

Belgium Spa 22 million 2023........ Set for rotation; probably no extension

Netherlands Zandvoort 32 million 2025........ + option for 2 years/rotate with Spa?

Italy Monza 25 million 2024

Singapore Marina Bay 35 million 2028

Japan Suzuka 25 million 2024

Qatar Losail 55 million 2032

USA Austin 30 million 2026

Mexico H. Rodriguez 30 million 2025

Brazil Interlagos 25 million 2025

Las Vegas Las Vegas Collaboration 2025........ Talked about extending through 2032 (local approval just granted)

Abu Dhabi Yas Marina 42 million 2030

Any thoughts or comments on any of the threads general areas of discussion then fire away.....

[Everso Biggyballies]

Domencali has today confirmed what many of us have feared for some time, in as much as, as we have seen with the loss of a French and German GP, plus the imminent loss of Spa (only on the calendar this year due pretty much to the absence of South Africa and China).

What he has confirmed is in my mind sacrilege, albeit nothing that surprises me. What he has confirmed today has indeed been hinted at for many years, even before Liberty. That of course is the revelation that the history of a GP is now officially irrelevant in whether or not a venue is kept on the calendar. He has not said they are all gone, so it isnt as doom and gloom as it appears, it is just that the history of say Monza / the Italian GP , the British GP, Monaco, Spa etc is no longer of any real relevance. It seems the new F1 target fan has less respect for old venues over venues such as Vegas. The fact that Italy and the UK have been there since day 1, and Belgium and Monaco just a handful of years fewer.

In a nutshell Domencali has said that the history of F1 is like looking over your shoulder or looking backwards when F1 must focus itself on the future. This is what he has said. Maybe I am feeding a grim interpretation of what he is saying, as he is not saying its over for historical venues, but he is pretty much saying that history is nothing given the income from those historical venues (ie the British GP gets little or no government assistance) thus the return to Liberty is not what the new venues are offering. He is set on 24 venues but openly says countries with big dollars are queuing. It seems bums on seats and atmosphere is irrelevant when they make money from those watching digitally or on TV.

Bottom line is new nations like Qatar or Saudi, as we can see from the hosting fees in the previous post are happy to pay more than double the UK, Belgium, Japan, Italy, Spain etc. They are happy to pay that for what is basically sportswashing. They dont worry about whether they get only a handful there on race day. They just want to hide their human rights records behind the glamour of F1 coming to their country.

However, with such competition for spaces on the calendar, and a finite number available, Domenicali has warned that history is no longer good enough to ensure an event in the future.

“I would say in terms of numbers, 24 is the right number,” he said.

“The mix in the continents that we have today is looking good.

“In terms of possibility in the future, there’s no secret on that – we are still seeing if there is a chance to go to Africa because it’s the only continent that is missing. (Everso note: At least he seems to have forgotten about Antartica. Dont mention the war.... I mentioned it once but think I got away with it )

“But on the other hand, I would say the only comment that I’m always saying to our promoters when historic is only looking behind, there is something that is not good.

“When historic is a good foundation to look ahead with a different future, that is beautiful.

“So that’s why, with the so-called historical Grand Prix, we are really focusing on understanding what the view of the future is.

“To be arrogant and believe that you have a guaranteed future because you had the race for 100 years, to be very honest, it’s not enough.

“There’s a side of respect is not enough for the tradition of these places and I think that at this moment, everyone understands that.

“We are not playing any games. We’re very transparent with them.

“We have seen that if they want to be on the calendar they need to do the things that we believe are right for them and also for us as Formula 1.

“I would say that the number and the quality of races are respecting also the so-called historical one, but it’s pretty clear that in the last couple of years, the perception from these historical places has changed because they realise that the landscape is different.”

[MonteCristo]

Put on a party, and attract the event fans.

The Surfers Paradise model.

[Everso Biggyballies]

F1 confirm rotational plan for future European races

F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali has confirmed plans to rotate future European races in order to accommodate certain venues on the calendar.

It has been talked about for. ever but is now coming to fruition as F1 popularity soars and new money no object venues allegedly queue to stage events .

Domencali talks of looking after the fans, we will be keeping historical venues etc, but it seems at odds with the increase in the very events that dont seem to attract spectators. So all his talk of listening to the fans is basicically a load of crap, and it is alla bout the money. It seems that the wish for rotating (Historic) venues is more aimed at those venues that dont pay middle eastern level of hosting fees. It it was done on the fanbase ass he suggests, the events that would be rotated would be the multiple ones within a short distance of each other in the Middle East.

Even in the rotation of venues it seems there is no move to include a French GP, the very initiator of Grand Prix Racing over a century ago. In fact the idea of a French GP is specifically off the cards. We have not had a Chinese GP for 5 years and no one has missed it (other than perhaps the F1 / Liberty bean counters.). And then of course the ever increasing number of US GPs

I know that F1is a commercial venture and shareholders demand returns, and making money is the focus so I guess there is a certain inevitability of crap races at shit venues in non motorsport interested cultures with abysmal human rights records only confirm the direction it is heading.

Of course no word of exactly how it will work, but certainly confirms European venues will be the ones being culled or rotated. Hopefully it doesnt in my lifetime become one European GP per year rotated through all the European venues.

Anyway here is an article outlining what Domencali has had to say......

Next season’s calendar is set for a record 24 events, with China due to return after what will be a five-year hiatus, whilst Imola is again scheduled after this year’s race was cancelled due to severe flooding in the Emilia Romagna region that resulted in a number of deaths and thousands being displaced.

There is a growing need, however, for certain European races to be rotated, with Belgium among those in mind.

Up until recently, it had been suggested Belgium would rotate with France, but the latter is no longer viable.

With Madrid vying to stage the Spanish GP, there is a possibility it could rotate with Barcelona’s Circuit de Catalunya.

As to the prospect of both on the calendar in the same season, as was the case with Barcelona and Valencia as most recently as 2012, speaking to the Beyond the Grid podcast, Domenicali said: “I think no.

“At that time, the business was not so big. We still had a European-centric calendar. Today we have a worldwide calendar with bigger races.

“In Europe, I am expecting to see races where the rotational principle could be applied, but not two in the same year.”

As to which races will be rotated, Domenicali added: “Not yet. There are already talks with some of them and this is something that in the next two years we are going to clarify formally.”

Of the current crop of European events, there are certain ‘crown jewels’ such as Monaco, Monza, and Silverstone.

Whilst retaining a historical element to the calendar is crucial for Domenicali, he has also made clear the European venues that are currently fortunate enough to have a contract have to prove themselves to be world-class.

“For sure, it’s very important the historical races have their own personality,” said Domenicali.

“I laugh when I hear people say Formula 1 does not respect historical races. It’s absolutely the other way around.

“What we want is to use this incredible moment where Formula 1 is growing, to make sure that everyone is doing the right thing. It’s a matter of understanding the world is evolving.

“Historical races will always be part of the calendar, but there is a need for some of them to recognise the changes that they have to make with infrastructure, for example. That is not changing the layout of traditional races.

“The fans are coming more and more with different needs. If you do not give them what they deserve, it’s not historical anymore, is it?

“If you remember, two years ago when there were discussions that Belgium was off the calendar, they reacted very well. They invested in infrastructure related to the best experience we want to give to the fans.”

.https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/06/24/f1 ... s-rotated/

[Aty]

We (Europeans) have a lot to take care about in our lives. Many things are important, but the F1 is not one of them, and I don't want my EU government subsiding that kind of business, regardless what Liberty wants.

Nevermind my personal relationship with the sport, on the list of 100 priorites it sits exactly in the position #101. I can live without seeing, breathing and eating the F1 in daily doses (as I used to do). Occassional drop into la la land is just fine with me. It doesn't have to be every week. It will be that much precious on returning visit.

On other note, replacing F1, my exploratory excursions into local fishing shops are well under way. Japanese guys are trying to sell me a spinning reel (existentially obviously out of this world) for 1500 €. Talking about F1 tickets are slightly off-mark...

[erwin greven]

We (Europeans) have a lot to take care about in our lives. Many things are important, but the F1 is not one of them, and I don't want my EU government subsiding that kind of business, regardless what Liberty wants.

100% agreed.

[Michael Ferner]

[Aty]

24 races next year. That's 6 too many for me, but I appreciate available smörgåsbord.

[Everso Biggyballies]

24 races next year. That's 6 too many for me, but I appreciate available smörgåsbord.

They still have 5 North American races, 4 in the middle East, plus Spa, Imola, China back in, Azerbaijan swaps months with Japan.

Too many for me. I can see a cull of some of my F1 viewing next year.

[Star]

Yep, agreed, it's too many races and there are two triple headers as well, which are really annoying. Are they trying to put us all off from watching?!!!!

[Vassago]

They really went for Suzuka in April. In the middle of the monsoon season? That race could be a complete shit show. Back when MotoGP held Japanese GP in April there was rain every other year

[XcraigX]

Time to drop China, Miami (I may be the only American to say this), Qatar (which was great during the pandemic, but we don't need it), and Abu Dhabi. I'd rather try South Africa than any of those races, but I'm also good without them.
I'm on the fence about LasVegas as we still have not seen it, so I'm willing to be open to it.

Japan is spring will be nuts. Do we have Monsoon tires yet? Most likely postponed or cancelled due to flooding.

[Vassago]

South Africa has a totally corrupt government plus electricity shortages so no wonder Kyalami is on delay, I can't see that GP happening upon closer inspection. Liberty would probably want as many US-based races as possible so Miami's fake marina ain't going anywhere and well, China can definitely pay the entry fee. We should be lucky Spa hasn't been kicked out yet (and it would have been to make room for South Africa).

[XcraigX]

South Africa has a totally corrupt government plus electricity shortages so no wonder Kyalami is on delay, I can't see that GP happening upon closer inspection. Liberty would probably want as many US-based races as possible so Miami's fake marina ain't going anywhere and well, China can definitely pay the entry fee. We should be lucky Spa hasn't been kicked out yet (and it would have been to make room for South Africa).

I just hate that China track since it was new. The layout bothers me and it seems you can't follow close. I seem to remember every year it was someone winning by a margin because there was no close racing.

[Aty]

The seven British-based Formula 1 teams have asked the government to help ease post-Brexit border crossing and permit problems and are hopeful of a solution, Alpine principal Otmar Szafnauer said on Wednesday.

This is low hanging fruit to make comments on the forum. Strangely, British daily newspapers (I have seen) seems to ignore it.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/06 ... otorsport/