When is an open wheeler not an open wheeler? Wheel arches mudguards planned:UPDATE

[Everso Biggyballies]

Strange question?

I ask because the drivers have complained that with the wider rear tyres and the ground effects floors spray is creating huge problems with driver visibility and the dangers that go with that...... not to mention the delays and suspensions of sessions as a result.
(The championship has been hesitant to run in full wet conditions this season, with the Monaco, Singapore and Japanese Grands Prix being delayed due to concerns over spray and the displacement capacity of the rain tyres.



So the FIA are now looking to fit wheel arches (mudguards) to reduce spray, as part of a project to improve visibility in wet races.
A study by the FIA is looking at ways of reducing the effect and has already developed a prototype “minimal” wheel arch. It would be fitted to all F1 cars in “extremely wet” conditions. The standardised devices would be installed either before a race or during a red flag and are likely to cover the front and rear wheels.

An initial concept was shown to the F1 Commission, made up of officials from the FIA and F1, as well as the teams. It is due to be further updated. This isnt a casual we might look at it.... this is a we have been looking at it for a while and we are a long way down the track to a 'solution'

Hence my question. To me If the wheels are covered they are no longer open wheelers. The wheels are enclosed. I used to run a car that ran in other guises in F3. With cycle guards on it became a Sports car and ran in a Sports Car class.

I also seem to remember a Grand Prix Talbot Lago, with the addition of cycle mudguards and open the space beside the driver to meet the regs for a 2 seater, entered and won Le Mans, obviously a Sports car race.

What do you guys think. @Michael Ferner what do nyou have to say?


As an aside It has also examined whether additional lights should be fitted to cars to improve visibility.

[MonteCristo]

Indycar called and wants its shitty cars back .



Problem is, they've been doing this delayed F1 starts and red flagging races stuff for years now in F1. Well before this wider tyres and venturi tunnel floors.

What will it change if they can see better but still sit in pit lane until they start on inters and change to slicks three laps after going green?

[Michael Ferner]

Two things: first, about the Talbot-Lago, it's not like they ran a GP car with mudguards at Le Mans, instead they converted the Le Mans winner to a GP car by removing the cycle guards. The difference? Well, at the time, essentially every car was a GP car (due to very few and basic rules), but a pur sang racing car does not need those cycle guards, so they are usually omitted. But not always, which brings us to point two: I present as evidence the original Mercedes-Benz W196. Not an open-wheeler by any means, but certainly a GP car, I think nobody can argue that. Bottom line (and there are more examples of that), open wheels are not part of the F1 "DNA" which seems so important to many of today's fan who oppose change. However, on the other hand it opens the door for contraptions like the above (ugh!), so I am in two minds. Luckily, I'm no longer passionate about F1...

[erwin greven]

At first the "Formula 1" was nothing more than an ENGINE formula. Grand Prix races could be run under Formula 1 rules, or like they did for a while with Formula 2 rules. Like they did in the early and mid 50s. Also, Mercedes ran non-open wheel cars for a while in the Grand Prix World Championship. Fangio didn't like those because he could not see the front wheels.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Two things: first, about the Talbot-Lago, it's not like they ran a GP car with mudguards at Le Mans, instead they converted the Le Mans winner to a GP car by removing the cycle guards. The difference? Well, at the time, essentially every car was a GP car (due to very few and basic rules), but a pur sang racing car does not need those cycle guards, so they are usually omitted. But not always, which brings us to point two: I present as evidence the original Mercedes-Benz W196. Not an open-wheeler by any means, but certainly a GP car, I think nobody can argue that. Bottom line (and there are more examples of that), open wheels are not part of the F1 "DNA" which seems so important to many of today's fan who oppose change. However, on the other hand it opens the door for contraptions like the above (ugh!), so I am in two minds. Luckily, I'm no longer passionate about F1...

I stand corrected on the Talbot Lago.... I thought given the T26 raced in F1 / GP Racing prior to the Le Mans win the Le Mans car was a modified F1 car with a wider cockpit (to meet the 2 seater requirement) and mudguards, lights and spare tyre added

Either way my point stands.... with mudguards the car was a Sports Car and without a Grand Prix / F1 car.

Embarrassed to say I the 196 Streamliner had slipped my mind..... along with after a bit of thought, a few others albeit more one-offs that were not open wheeler but started a GP. One would be the Gordini T16S another the Veritas RS plus he Cooper T40 and Porsche RSK. I wont add the Osca(F2?) because it never actually started an F1 race despite trying. I cant think of any enclosed wheeled cars after the fifties.

[John]

As ugly a sight this will be, I'm fine with it for extremely wet races. I saw one of the current drivers (Ocon, perhaps?) noting that with the extremely bright LED-screens on the wheels blinding the drivers also adds to the problem with visibility in wet races. A bit like standing in a brightly lit room and looking out the window into the night. I'm not sure that the rainguards will fix that issue.

But if I have to choose between cars without rainguards not racing, or cars with rainguards racing, then I'll choose the latter.

[Michael Ferner]

With F1 now basically US owned, I think you will have to get used to the phrase "race rained off"

[Nononsensecapeesh]

F1 with mudguards? We've already had a Caterham F1 team!

All joking aside though, such a concept would have to be very carefully implemented so that it doesn't detract too much from what the fans are used to, something to consider for the future and I'm glad it is being considered.

[Everso Biggyballies]

A bit more info on the plan to fit mudguards for wet races....

The FIA has revealed more details about its plans to fit wheel arches on Formula 1 cars in wet conditions to help reduce spray.

We all know what the plan is.... fit some kind of wheel covering to minimise the spary and help visibility.

They are clearly serious about it.....Work is already underway to evaluate the idea, and it is hoped that prototype versions of the arches could be ready to race as early as the second half of the 2023 season, although 2024 might be more realistic.

At this time no one seems to know exactly how things will go but the concept and proposal will be trialled before any green light. It will not be a full time change which is good news, and whatever we get will be for use in extreme weather only. Although the concept I dont like I guess if it avoids the crap wqe have to go through waiting for race starts in wet weather. Whether it avoids it of course is the bottom line.
FIA's single-seater technical director Nikolas Tombazis has explained some of the background to the idea – and why the wheel arches would only be brought into play if the weather was extremely bad.

"We only think it's going to be something that gets used on a couple of occasions a year, maybe three, that sort of thing," he explained.

"We don't want it to be that every time there's a drop of rain, then suddenly you have to fit these things."

Tombazis said that the ultimate aim was to avoid a repeat of the washout at the 2021 Belgian Grand Prix, where only a few laps could be completed behind the safety car as conditions were unsuitable for racing.

But the issue has moved up the priority list after the delays at this year's Japanese GP at Suzuka because of poor weather.

"Spa in 2021 still left scars on the sport because it was very unfortunate circumstance," explained Tombazis. "It would have been 10 times worse I think if we had gone all the way to Japan and had to pack up and come back. We really need to avoid that.

"We have so many people watching, spectators paying tickets, teams travelling all over the world, and then to suddenly say we can't race is not very responsible of us.

"I think it will bring the raceable conditions from what is maybe currently intermediate tyres, as you almost never race with the wet tyres, I think it'll bring it well into the wet tyre territory."

The FIA has already begun conducting some computer simulations of the benefits of the wheel arches, but said it was no easy feat to evaluate how visibility was impacted by spray thrown up from the floor rather than the tyres.

"We have done a lot of CFD simulations, because we want to make sure the effect of these devices is relatively small on the overall aerodynamics," added Tombazis. "There still is an effect, but not a massive one.

[Everso Biggyballies]

This wheel cover /business is back in the news again....

Mercedes and McLaren are set to test a new wheel arch component at Silverstone in the upcoming weeks which would dramatically decrease the amount of spray from a wet track surface.

The new parts could have a huge effect on wet-weather driving with the spray kicked up proving to be one of the biggest obstacles to safety.

The idea for the part was conceived at a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council last November as they discussed how to try and tackle extreme weather conditions mudgurd.

Mercedes and McLaren will undertake the test on July 13 on Silverstone's National circuit which will be artificially soaked prior to the cars heading out on track.

Tests will be filmed and then evaluated by the authorities to determine how an F1 car creates spray and whether the wheel arches will have the necessary effect.

The 2021 Belgian Grand Prix, in which no racing laps were completed due to horrific wet conditions, led to a change in thinking and now there is hope these new parts will have the requisite impact.

A soddened Belgian race in 2021 saw fans get short-changed
"Driver feedback has suggested that there has been reduced visibility in extremely wet conditions with this latest generation of cars, which is a key determinant on starting, or needing to suspend sessions," said the FIA following the meeting last November.

"Therefore, the FIA commenced a study to define a package of parts aiming to suppress the spray generated when running in wet conditions."

The FIA's single-seater director Nikolas Tombazis said in December that he does not want to see the new arches used in any wet condition and stresses they should only be reserved for the wettest weather.

"We only think it's going to be something that gets used on a couple of occasions a year, maybe three, that sort of thing," he outlined.

"We don't want it to be that every time there's a drop of rain, then suddenly you have to fit these things."

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/11059 ... el-arches/

[Michkov]

Two question that come to mind with this. Are the covers rain only attachments, if so what are they going to do in sudden showers. I can't see the teams sticking on a new vane in a pitstop. Since they red flag races at a drizzle anyway that may not be such an issue. The second question would be if the underwings are not a bigger contributor to the spray issue rather than the tyres.

[Everso Biggyballies]

This has been a topic that has fallen silent for a few months, and seemed to have been dropped. Wrong.

No one denies the frustration we as viewers get from a wet track delay / SC run race because of the visibility situation which inevitably arises. Some of us old school types that remember some of the conditions we used to race in (ie Fuji 1976) might think the drivers are all a bit soft in this health and safety era we are in now, but I do believe the issue is more relevant now due to the rapid advancement of diffusers and other aero devises that suck more water off the track than ever before. That plus the modern tyres all collectively mean the spray is greater than ever. Onboard shots from any following cars show the lack of vision to all but the guy at the front.

They tested some devices during the year but they were small, ineffective and it seems like the problem was put in the "too hard" basket. Its a bit of an impossible situation to counter and still maintain the open wheeler element alive. Even fully enclosed full bodywork sports and touring cars have a problem.

Anyway to show it is still a matter under investigation FIA single seater boss Nikolas Tombazis has offered an insight into the delays surrounding the investigation of lets call them wet weather spray guards.

“The test done in July with the help of Mercedes and also a bit of support from McLaren was… the covers were too small, they didn’t really cover enough of the wheels,” Tombazis said.

“We felt that they therefore didn’t really answer the question whether that’s a cure or not.

“What we still have a doubt about is what proportion of the problem is due to the overall diffuser and sucking the water from the track – which is something clearly this thing won’t fix – and how much of it is because of the wheels.

“We know both factors are quite significant.

“We’re not aiming to solve everything, we know there will still be visibility issues, but we want to see what percentage we can cure by a very complete cover of the wheels.

“And then, if we see that’s actually a tangible step forward, then we’ll optimise that.”

A second round of testing was due to take place last month but has been delayed until May.

That is in the interests of cost saving as the components were set to be developed by the teams themselves.

However, with production capacity and lead times as they are, to meet the November deadline, the sport would have been forced to look externally.

Rather than introduce that cost, the FIA agreed to delay the second test.

“That would have been really expensive,” Tombazis said of taking the project externally.

“[The teams] asked whether they could delay the test to Spring in order to cut the cost down a bit, which is why we thought that’s sensible.

“From a technical point of view, [we] would have preferred to have done it already, of course, but that was too expensive.”

When running does resume, it will be centred on information gathering more than testing a final solution.

“It’s sort of information gathering to see if that is actually the right path,” Tombazis reasoned.

“Alternatively, if the test doesn’t go well in the Spring, we may abandon that course and then have to rethink about what to do, I guess.”

Bottom line is it wont be a quick fix and is in my mind almost impossible a task. However further testing will happen..... the outcome of those tests will also help determine the timeline for the concept making its way onto a race car. Dont hold your breath!

That is not expected to happen before 2026, when new regulations are introduced.

[SBan83]

Thing is, even NASCAR had to stop a race at COTA a few years ago due to complete lack of visibility, and those are actual cars...with wheel arches (although no mudflaps at the time - they were added in 2023 IIRC). So it's not surprising they're not really making any headway into addressing the issue in F1.

[erwin greven]

agreed 100%

There is no solution for the spray F1 produce.