Horner under investigation

[Aty]

Bottom post of the previous page:

The only thing i can say is that i totally ignore the media about this subject. They have one goal: sales, clicks, likes.

... it's a sobering experience to realize how many ordinary people are willing to play compliant henchmen for those who have an agenda in this.

What is the mysterious agenda you are reffering to? Two people from the same organisation have some personal issues to address. Outcome may affect team leadership, which is actually the principal and only a point of interest for rest of us. There is no need to talk about agendas, unless you know something more.

[Michael Ferner]

I have no idea and I couldn't possibly care less about the power struggle in a company selling foul tasting sugar piss at excessive prices.

[Everso Biggyballies]

I have no idea and I couldn't possibly care less about the power struggle in a company selling foul tasting sugar piss at excessive prices.

I must admit I agree on the taste of Red Bull. I once bought one to try because of their motor racing involvment. I had one mouthful and have never tried it again. Not surprising I didnt like it, I have never liked any fizzy sugary drinks like Coke, Fanta Lemonade. The only fizzy drink I like is fizzy Mineral water or I will add lemon juice and Angostura Bitters to Mineral water. Oh, and occasionally a beer.

[Michael Ferner]

Tried it once, when it was very new in the nineties, and didn't even finish the can as far as I recall. Never been tempted to repeat the experiment. Pretty much the same with Cola or any other lemonade, except for the (very) occasional lemon fizz (but certainly nothing from Coke, Pepsi or any other 'fancy' brand).

Oh, and I agree on the beer. Cheers! * Walks to the fridge to fetch one *

[MonteCristo]

Largely agree on Red Bull (and energy drinks as a whole).

I can tolerate it. Probably had like 3-4 cans in my life, but never paid for one. Has an "interesting" taste. But not something you savour.

[Aty]

Not too much support in here for RB drink?

From history books, concoction was developed by Mr. Chaleo Yoovidhya and his family. Mr. Dietrich Mateschitz was the one who convinced people to drink it. Big way. Racing circus today should be forever indebted to the old man DM, because he is the one who supported their existence. CY wasn't interested in that part of the business. From a small Chinese company settling in Thailand, descendants of those two men are today billonaries. It is believed it's mostly due to skilful promotion of the product.

This was then. Times and plans are changing. Not sure why. Last year shareholders made a lot of money.

[Ruslan]

Guardian article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/re ... 008a&ei=12

The main point of the article, that she can (or will) take the case to an employment tribunal, has already been discussed before. What got my attention was the statement near the end "...it is now believed that the complaint was originally raised in November of last year and it remained private for a long period of time before it was leaked to the press and then confirmed by Red Bull BmbH in early February."

There were statements early in this process that her complaint was an open secret and everyone in the paddock knew about it. That is more in line with a November complaint than an early January one. It can also make the argument that she (or Jos or whoever) only went public after being stone-walled for 2 to 3 months.

[Ruslan]

Horner story keeps churning away. Now the claim is that Verstappen's former manager (why not his current one?) met with the Thai bosses in Dubai and informed them at if Horner stays, Verstappen is gone. Have no idea if there is any solid basis behind this. Article is here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... 9d426&ei=9

Needless to say, Verstappen to Mercedes in 2025 would be good for F1. I gather that would them mean Sainz to Red Bull. I don't either of these moves are likely.

[Aty]

Horner story keeps churning away. Now the claim is that Verstappen's former manager (why not his current one?) met with the Thai bosses in Dubai and informed them at if Horner stays, Verstappen is gone. Have no idea if there is any solid basis behind this. Article is here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... 9d426&ei=9

Needless to say, Verstappen to Mercedes in 2025 would be good for F1. I gather that would them mean Sainz to Red Bull. I don't either of these moves are likely.

There are more rumours floating around, but it's tiring to keep up with everything.

1. Thai owner is on a collision course with Austrians. I am not really knowledgeable whether business law allows for one shareholder to make idiots from other shareholders, ignore them, but I am assuimng he knows what he is doing.

2. Thai wants to move business to Dubai from Austria. (Taxes?)

3. Horner aspires to become to become czar of the business with powers exceeding 49% shareholder. It would have been already done deal. What's holding it back (alledgedly) is uncertain outcome of the appeal process.

I ask - Should he bust the business, can Mark get his shares at the price level they are today?

etc.

I am merely curious what business education and experience Horner has which qualifies him for such position.

Max - Toto confirmed that Max is on the top of his list of candidates. Seb and Toto are talking, but not about the F1 (said Seb).

Carlos - Sainz Sr. wants junior in a winning team next year. Well, I am not sure which team that is, but it might be only Mercedes and/or RBR.

[Ruslan]

Lots of rumors out there: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... b6486&ei=8

Have no idea how true they are or if they are true at all.

[Ruslan]

Latest report from The Independent: https://sports.yahoo.com/christian-horn ... 48019.html

They are stating that the accuser wants to return to work at Red Bull.

[Aty]

I had to remove couple of websites from my Bookmarks. Systematic spreading of unsupported claims (on most subjects) was a straw which broke camel's back. Facts are, we on sidelines don't know nature of the complain under discussion, and at what stage the appeal process is.

It seems that some people would feel comfortable if we all forget about it, and pretend nothing ever happened. Cultural differences play undoubtedly a role in this. Employment Ethical Standards aren't the same among nations. Not only European vs Thai, but also British vs Continental Europe. So it seems (after declaration of nothing to see here, move on).

I recall reading an opinion of a Dutch journalist, that in a Dutch company just content of several emails would have been almost certainly enough of a case for dismissal from job. He purportedly has taken time to read painstakingly all of the released emails.

It would be good if this case nears its end, whatever that will be.

[DoubleFart]

Facts are, we on sidelines don't know nature of the complain under discussion, and at what stage the appeal process is.

And yet you constantly update this thread with nothings.

[Aty]

Facts are, we on sidelines don't know nature of the complain under discussion, and at what stage the appeal process is.

And yet you constantly update this thread with nothings.

The case of the Austrian company interest me perhaps more than you, but admittedly in the sea of disinformation it is becoming increasingly difficult to stay factual. What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.

forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...

[Aty]

What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.

forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...

If he has done "nothing", then we wouldn't be having "Horner is investigated" thread. Employment Standards in UK aren't enough to promote the man into sainthood. My perception of him was taking adverse lines long time ago. Fourteen years to be exact. It would be boring (and possibly inappropriate) to bring all here. He has done nothing over the years to soften that image.