Best Touring Car Era

[Cheeveer]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I was more thinking history and philosophy.

American stock car racing is its own entity. An American stock car has never been interchangeable with a European-style (or Australian) touring car. Stock car racing carved out its own discipline of motor racing, independent from the touring car racing that happened in Europe. That stock cars were built for ovals and touring cars for road courses is the most important aspect, obviously.

Talking about NASCAR while discussing "touring car racing" is futile, since there is no historical parallell.

When stock car racing began it involved racing cars that were either modified or unmodified versions of road cars.

When touring car racing began it also involved racing cars that were either modified or unmodified versions of road cars. I'm fairly certain you could have run a NASCAR-spec Hudson Hornet or something like that in a touring car race back in the day, presuming it had enough seats or doors.

Even the oval part isn't neccesarilly correct either. Something like Turismo Carretera is classified a stock car category, even though it has generally run road courses and some rally-type courses throughout its history. Then there's Stock Car Brasil, a category which runs entirely on road courses.

You're right about the early part of the disciplines, there were no line between the two disciplines established then. Example of where you could all kind of cars in the same race: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/C ... 11-23.html

My point was that they developed away from each other quickly.

I would be interested to know the last time they used actual stripped down road cars for top level saloon car racing.

Maybe Supertouring? Some of the early V8 Supercars (back before they were actually called that) might have been stripped down road cars as well. Group A was definitely based off of road cars.

In STCC's S2000 era, there were some "homebuilt" cars that were definitely built from actual road cars.

[Michael Ferner]

"Stock car" is just the American word for "Touring car" or "Saloon car" in Europe, that's the only difference. Of course, Touring/Stock car rules are always tricky, because every fool knows you can't really race a Touring/Stock car, so modifications need to be made, hence there's a wide variety of very different specs. The fact that NASCAR Stock cars are not eligible under current European Touring car rules (and don't look like road going cars) means nothing, just look at the Group 5 cars of the seventies.

[kals]

There are quite a few current day BTCC entries that are built up from road cars. It's part of the cost effective and attractiveness of the NGTC rules set.

[Metzo]

In STCC's S2000 era, there were some "homebuilt" cars that were definitely built from actual road cars.

really? i always thought that was one of the S60 that was built by prodrive for the ETCC in 2002.

[Cheeveer]

"Stock car" is just the American word for "Touring car" or "Saloon car" in Europe, that's the only difference. Of course, Touring/Stock car rules are always tricky, because every fool knows you can't really race a Touring/Stock car, so modifications need to be made, hence there's a wide variety of very different specs. The fact that NASCAR Stock cars are not eligible under current European Touring car rules (and don't look like road going cars) means nothing, just look at the Group 5 cars of the seventies.

Are Formula 1 cars and Indy cars the same then?

In STCC's S2000 era, there were some "homebuilt" cars that were definitely built from actual road cars.

really? i always thought that was one of the S60 that was built by prodrive for the ETCC in 2002.

You may be right on that! Ronnie Brandt's car's always looked like scrapheaps anyway.

[ariz7581]

Definitely the Super Touring era. Group A and ITC was great but the range of the field of Super Touring BTCC was on another level!

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Nice to see some people on this forum see Touring Car racing as more than just glorified "Taxi Racing".

[Everso Biggyballies]

Nice to see some people on this forum see Touring Car racing as more than just glorified "Taxi Racing".

Two ways of looking at the answers..... your interpretation, or the fact that people are judging the best era of glorified Taxi racing :

Touring Cars, Saloon Cars, Tin Tops, Taxis, stock cars etc, Just terms of endearment.
a
Probably stems back to when Touring / Saloon cars were more production aligned and were often car brands and models used and seen regularly as real life taxis. Certainly that was the case wheen V8Supercars were just Holden Commodores or Ford Falcons, and all taxis without exeption were either Falcons or Commodores. Inevitably V8SC became known as Taxi Racing.

Then you have cars like the Nurburgring Taxi. I think they hve one at Zandvoort too.

No different from things like the Maserati Tipo 61 being known as a birdcage, or a Ferrari 250 GT SWB being known as a Breadvan. Or even the Renault Turbo F1 cars being known as the T-Pots. 1970's BMW CSLs being Batmobiles. People will always find nicknames for cars, both generi but brands or models..

Plus of cours the. many individual cars with nicknames. There would be a threadful of individual car nicknames, From Romulus Remus and Hanuman to Big Bertha Baby Bertha, Old Nail, Bloody Mary, etc etc etc.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Nice to see some people on this forum see Touring Car racing as more than just glorified "Taxi Racing".

Two ways of looking at the answers..... your interpretation, or the fact that people are judging the best era of glorified Taxi racing :

Touring Cars, Saloon Cars, Tin Tops, Taxis, stock cars etc, Just terms of endearment.
a
Probably stems back to when Touring / Saloon cars were more production aligned and were often car brands and models used and seen regularly as real life taxis. Certainly that was the case wheen V8Supercars were just Holden Commodores or Ford Falcons, and all taxis without exeption were either Falcons or Commodores. Inevitably V8SC became known as Taxi Racing.

Then you have cars like the Nurburgring Taxi. I think they hve one at Zandvoort too.

No different from things like the Maserati Tipo 61 being known as a birdcage, or a Ferrari 250 GT SWB being known as a Breadvan. Or even the Renault Turbo F1 cars being known as the T-Pots. 1970's BMW CSLs being Batmobiles. People will always find nicknames for cars, both generi but brands or models..

Plus of cours the. many individual cars with nicknames. There would be a threadful of individual car nicknames, From Romulus Remus and Hanuman to Big Bertha Baby Bertha, Old Nail, Bloody Mary, etc etc etc.

I don't see it as Taxi Racing. Some people do and have been quite vocal about it.

[Michael Ferner]

Some people do and have been quite vocal about it.

YES!!!

[Nononsensecapeesh]

I rest my case.

[Vassago]

The Super Touring era is the obvious answer since it also matched the timeline of sportscar racing post-Can Am original slump (WSC being canned and IMSA killing off the prototype era due to rising costs, the new era starting in 1994 quickly led to them going belly up due to lack of fan interest). DTM later made the same mistake with ITC but that was also down to Hans Werner Aufrecht's ego of creating the "European NASCAR". After ITC folded Mercedes went back into sports cars but that idea literally flew off the scale at Le Mans 1999.

[Chorton_1]

I have to say late 90's Super Touring, because I was part of the RML Nissan Primera team at the time!

[PTRACER]

I have to say late 90's Super Touring, because I was part of the RML Nissan Primera team at the time!

No way! Tell us more!