F1 and the dam of legitimacy

[MonteCristo]

Based off this video into NASCAR's nosedive into crazy rules and calls...



What has F1 done in your mind to break its own dam of legitimacy by changing rules, protocols and racing calls to chase casual fans and attempt to drive-up viewership numbers?

[Aty]

What has F1 done in your mind to break its own dam of legitimacy by changing rules, protocols and racing calls to chase casual fans and attempt to drive-up viewership numbers?

Fully agree, but why I am upset about it? Well, here comes Occam's Razor principle. I am old, settled into rules which kept me in the game for very long time, and changes drive me crazy. All of that doesn't mean they are wrong, despite that I think they are (FiA/Liberty). A few days ago I've read, that the F1 was found 7th most popular sport in the world, yet I don't care for that, as I see "sport" has become foreign to concept of GP I loved, and more of a cash cow.

[Michael Ferner]

Silverstone 1998

Malaysia 2002 (was it? the year traction control was banned but Ferrari used it)

That's just the first things that come to mind, I'm sure there's more when I start to think about it.

[erwin greven]

Ironic is that both Silverstone 1998 and Malaysia 2002 had the same head of the stewards.

[John]

F1, for all it's faults, is nowhere near breaking the dam. Nascar are "fixing" races to the point where it's more akin to WWF (entertainment) rather than sports.

[erwin greven]

That is why i left NASCAR.

[MonteCristo]

F1, for all it's faults, is nowhere near breaking the dam. Nascar are "fixing" races to the point where it's more akin to WWF (entertainment) rather than sports.

I agree .. but only that they do it in a 'fairer' way.

They still "fix" races with uncalled for SCs and more than ever occurring red flags. They don't overtly allow Driver X to win... But races are manipulated to create chaos that "improves" "the show" as a whole.

But then again, what of the Balestre era? 1989? Was that "fixed"? What about the favouritism of Ferrari in the early 2000s? They didn't "fix" races. But it was like they just wanted Ferrari to win, and allowed the conditions to begin and continue, because that's where the money was. They saw Ferrari domination as a good thing commercially (think of the merch sales!), because it was just before this wider social era of mobile phone and social media that have shrunk peoples' attention spans.

Those are now old examples, unknown or forgotten about by many modern fans.

But IMO F1 becomes less of a sport day by day when stewards chop and change, handing out different punishments (or none at all) to the same offense. Teams block the entry of other teams because they're not deemed worthy enough, and families own teams. Red flags and SCs called for miniscule reasons - essentially competition yellows. Sprint races that are a form of stage races.

[XcraigX]

So can we all agree on a list of things to change? Maybe we can create a petition and send it in. Perhaps get another forum (or two) to sign it with us to give it momentum?

I also agree F1 is no where near NASCAR. But we need to fix the current cracks before they become serious leaks in legitimacy.

I'll start:
1. Remove Sprint races
2. Allow whatever testing the F1 teams think they can fit under the budget
3. There will be 2 dry and 2 wet tire compounds for the entire season. Teams free to choose when to use each.
4. Cars are limited to 1 type of electric regeneration/power assist (aimed at reducing car size).
5. Remove all diffusers from the cars (to reduce following negative aero wash)
6. Fuck DRS (throw it over the wall with a catapult/trebuchet)
7. Front and rear wings only. None allowed on the body.
8. Number of races in a season is capped at 20. 18 for existing tracks with room to try 2 trial tracks each year (new or returning to the calendar after being gone for 5 years).
9. Number of teams in race determined by the 107% qualifying rule. If you comply to the rules and you can make the cut, you race.
10. What else....???

[PTRACER]

I didn't realise NASCAR was in such a terrible state and I thought debris cautions were just a fan joke, not a real thing. Wow.

Anyway I don't think you can say for definite that F1 has broken the dam. They hide it so well. Their biggest two controversies, 2007 Singapore and Spygate, have been brushed under the carpet and long forgotten.

I think the biggest thing that makes me question legitimacy are the stewards. Every race, sticking their noses in, penalising anything and everything. It doesn't affect the racing in a positive way, but it does keep a bunch of people in their jobs (imagine if they had no decisions to make every race, their team would be cut).

Also the way SC and Red Flags are handled these days is a massive joke. They are definitely the F1 equivalent of debris cautions.

[PTRACER]

So can we all agree on a list of things to change? Maybe we can create a petition and send it in. Perhaps get another forum (or two) to sign it with us to give it momentum?

I also agree F1 is no where near NASCAR. But we need to fix the current cracks before they become serious leaks in legitimacy.

I'll start:
1. Remove Sprint races
2. Allow whatever testing the F1 teams think they can fit under the budget
3. There will be 2 dry and 2 wet tire compounds for the entire season. Teams free to choose when to use each.
4. Cars are limited to 1 type of electric regeneration/power assist (aimed at reducing car size).
5. Remove all diffusers from the cars (to reduce following negative aero wash)
6. Fuck DRS (throw it over the wall with a catapult/trebuchet)
7. Front and rear wings only. None allowed on the body.
8. Number of races in a season is capped at 20. 18 for existing tracks with room to try 2 trial tracks each year (new or returning to the calendar after being gone for 5 years).
9. Number of teams in race determined by the 107% qualifying rule. If you comply to the rules and you can make the cut, you race.
10. What else....???

Sprint races and fixed tyre allocations definitely need to go. Cars can be made smaller by reducing fuel tank size by half and bringing back refuelling. I think 20 races is still too many.

Hard to define what is a wing and what isn't but they need to reduce them drastically in size. End fences no further out then the centreline of the front wheels or something like that.

[MonteCristo]

Hard to define what is a wing and what isn't but they need to reduce them drastically in size. End fences no further out then the centreline of the front wheels or something like that.

Limit total surface area of things like wings.

That could also reduce instances of things like front wings that have 821 different panes. They're beautiful, but destroy aero for cars following.

[Michkov]

Mostly to add to Craigs list, some random musings of what I'd change if given the chance in F1.

a) Reduce the weight limit to 200kg for the survival cell and 100kg for the driver and seat.
b) Tyres are round and have a maximum width and radius.
c) Replace the fuel limit with a maximum energy allowance for a race distance.
d) Everyone who turns up with a legal car is allowed to qualify for the race.
e) Ban live telemetry from the car to the pits.
f) Single lap qualifying
g) No parc ferme + Sunday warm up and T-cars

a) is to reduce the size and weight of the cars. As long as the survival cell that contains the tank and the driver are sturdy enough, there is no need for increasing the weight limit. Everything besides that is up to the teams to make as light as they can get away with it. The driver+kit+seat insert limit is there to dissuade the drivers from anorexic tendencies. b) I don't care about the bloody tyres, let the teams commission them from whoever they please. Testing within the budget cap is free after all. c) This is to get a variety of engine designs, fuck V10s, I want rotaries, diesel electric, and turbine engined cars. d) Missed that in Craig's list. But we have 26 grid spots, whoever are the 26 fastest legal cars on Saturday get to race on Sunday. e) Sensor up the car as much as the engineers want, but they are only allowed to get to the data by plugging in a cable when in the pits. No more coaching from the factory, if the driver wants to reset that sensor he better bring the user manual along. Mind you that is not a ban on radio comms, because that is a safety feature. f) I would like to watch full qualy laps not just the last turn 20 times.

And not to forget, the teams don't get a say in what the rules are.