2023 WHAT HAPPENS IN VEGAS STAYS IN VEGAS SIN CITY GP

[XcraigX]

Bottom post of the previous page:

A couple of Odds and Sods from the weekend

A few new records broken in Las Vegas. Of course Max features in many of them, along with Red Bull. No surprises there.

I guess the first one has an American flavour....

Max became the first man to ever win three Grands Prix in the same country in the one season with his three US victories in Miami, Austin and now Las Vegas.

It goes without saying that having won 16 of the last 17 races to take his tally for the year to 18 that has extended his own record for races won in a season. He got.the record last year with 15, having broken Vettel's 2013 record of 13. Even if he loses in Abu Dhabi his win rate will be over 81%

He became the most dominant driver ever in terms of wins to starts in a year, beating the previous 1952 benchmark of 75% set by Alberto Ascari.

Max's win in Vegas takes his win %-age this year to over 85 %. A win in Abu Dhabi will take it up another percent or two.

For the hell of it here are the top 5 in the race wins to starts in a year by %-age;

Pos. Driver. Year win / starts. %-age
1. Max Verstappen. 2023. 18/21 85.71%
2. Alberto Ascari.. 1952. 6/8. 75%
3. Michael Schumacher . 2004. 13/18. 72.22%
4. Jim Clark. 1963. 7/10. 70%
5. Sebastian Vettel. 2013. 13/19. 68,42%

FWIW Max is also 6th from last year with his 15/22 @ 68.18%

It was also Max's 20th podium for the season from 21 starts .... thats 95.24% no one else has ever won more than 17 in a season (Schumacher in 2002 won 17. Schu managed to do 17podiums /17races and so has a 100% podium year that Max hasnt. Yet.

George Russell is now guaranteed to finish eighth in the drivers' championship, the lowest position for a Mercedes driver since 2012 when Nico Rosberg was ninth and Michael Schumacher 13th.

Leclerc has now failed to win his last 12 starts from pole position, which is just one short of Rene Arnoux’s record set from 1979-82.

Las Vegas was GP# 1100

Incidentally Alonso is the only current driver who was alive the last time F1 raced in Las Vegas in 1982.

Lando Norris crashed out for his first retirement since Sao Paulo 2022. Until Vegas he had the second longest finishing streak behind Max

Oh and in Vegas Red Bull, with their 20th win of the season, broke Mercedes’ single-season record of 19 wins in a year (set in 2016).

I love all the stats ta I am honestly surprised that Hamilton isn't in that top 5. For someone who has won as many titles as he has and has been called a GOAT, his win ratio clearly isn't as good as you'd expect is it?

Nice to see Seb there of course

In order to make the list above, you need a season where you absolutely trounced the field and your team mate together. Hamilton has never done that. The closest he came were a couple years with Bottas (2019 and 2020), but Bottas was able to pull out enough wins to keep him out of top 5 territory. Most other seasons, Vettel, Ricciardo, and of course Rosberg took a decent number of wins.

[Star]

In order to make the list above, you need a season where you absolutely trounced the field and your team mate together. Hamilton has never done that. The closest he came were a couple years with Bottas (2019 and 2020), but Bottas was able to pull out enough wins to keep him out of top 5 territory. Most other seasons, Vettel, Ricciardo, and of course Rosberg took a decent number of wins.

True, but given how dominant people seemed to say he was, he obviously wasn't as dominant as you'd first think.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Oh and in Vegas Red Bull, with their 20th win of the season, broke Mercedes’ single-season record of 19 wins in a year (set in 2016).

I love all the stats ta I am honestly surprised that Hamilton isn't in that top 5. For someone who has won as many titles as he has and has been called a GOAT, his win ratio clearly isn't as good as you'd expect is it?

Nice to see Seb there of course

In order to make the list above, you need a season where you absolutely trounced the field and your team mate together. Hamilton has never done that. The closest he came were a couple years with Bottas (2019 and 2020), but Bottas was able to pull out enough wins to keep him out of top 5 territory. Most other seasons, Vettel, Ricciardo, and of course Rosberg took a decent number of wins.

True, but given how dominant people seemed to say he was, he obviously wasn't as dominant as you'd first think.

Indeed what Crig was saying is demonstrated in 2016, which until this year stood as the most dominant team performance in terms of wins.
Mercedes 19 wins were split pretty evenly between Rosberg (9 wins) and Lewis, (10 wins)

In %-age terms Mercedes had a win / start %-age of 90.5%, but the drivers both obviously fell short of 50% (Lewis 47.6% Nico 42.9%)
This year by comparison as of today (ie post Vegas have a wing %-age of 95.2%, with Max (18 wins) accounting for 85.7% and Sergio (2 wins) just 9.5%.

Ironically Lewis had more wins than Nico, more podiums and poles, but Lewis of course failed to win the championship.... they both had their get together and DNF in Spain, with Nico scoring in every other race.... Lewis had another zero point (DNF) GP in Malaysia.. They went into the last race with Lewis needing to win with Nico finishing worse than 3rd. Lewis won and Nico came 2nd (remember Lewis trying to back Nico into his pursuers, Max and iSeb (in a Ferrari) to give them a better chance of passing and beating Nico. It didnt quite work and Lewis beat Nico by 0.4 with Seb another 0.4 behind, with Max a similar distance behind Seb.... those first 4 covered by 1.5 seconds.

[DoubleFart]

Lewis' best bet to get on that list was 2015 where he could have matched Vettel, but after he pushed Nico off and won the title at COTA (followed by the hat throwing incident), Nico "took that personally" and dunked 7 in a row on Lewis.

Lewis had 10/16, and could have gotten to 13/19 and matched Vettel if not for Nico suddenly finding a new level.

[Star]

Indeed what Craig was saying is demonstrated in 2016, which until this year stood as the most dominant team performance in terms of wins.
Mercedes 19 wins were split pretty evenly between Rosberg (9 wins) and Lewis, (10 wins)

In %-age terms Mercedes had a win / start %-age of 90.5%, but the drivers both obviously fell short of 50% (Lewis 47.6% Nico 42.9%)
This year by comparison as of today (ie post Vegas have a wing %-age of 95.2%, with Max (18 wins) accounting for 85.7% and Sergio (2 wins) just 9.5%.

Ironically Lewis had more wins than Nico, more podiums and poles, but Lewis of course failed to win the championship.... they both had their get together and DNF in Spain, with Nico scoring in every other race.... Lewis had another zero point (DNF) GP in Malaysia.. They went into the last race with Lewis needing to win with Nico finishing worse than 3rd. Lewis won and Nico came 2nd (remember Lewis trying to back Nico into his pursuers, Max and iSeb (in a Ferrari) to give them a better chance of passing and beating Nico. It didnt quite work and Lewis beat Nico by 0.4 with Seb another 0.4 behind, with Max a similar distance behind Seb.... those first 4 covered by 1.5 seconds.

I do recall that race in 2016 and Hamilton trying back Rosberg into Seb. Seb played wingman to Nico that day and kept Max behind them both. I know he proctected Rosberg and helped him to the title. I loved him for that.

[Aty]

So, it's a few day after the LV race, and I did cool off. Comfortable? No, I am not. Scanning internet pages leads me to yapping how Team Principals, media, and drivers - well everybody wants us to like (madly love?) that event in gambling city. So, what's wrong with me? Maybe nothing; it's just sadness as I see everything I loved for decades is being thorn down, values stamped on, and nothing is the same anymore. European continent might be left with just one or two races in all because we refused to be blackmailed into subsidizing loot. In that rate of change, I think it's possible.

[Michael Ferner]

I'm glad I didn't have to live through all of that! ('Hat throwing incident'? Do tell!)

[Everso Biggyballies]

I'm glad I didn't have to live through all of that! ('Hat throwing incident'? Do tell!)

**Gets popcorn. And a bottle of red**

[DoubleFart]

I'm glad I didn't have to live through all of that! ('Hat throwing incident'? Do tell!)

Lewis pushed Nico off at Turn 1, stopping Nico challenging him for the win and ultimately securing Lewis the title (foregone conclusion anyway).

In the cool down room they weren't talking. Lewis picked up the #2 hat and gently tossed it over to where Nico was sitting.

Some suggest Nico took offense to the #2 part and it was like Lewis was making a statement. Whatever it was, Nico got his knickers in a twist about it and threw the hat with force back at Lewis.

It was very much two schoolchildren having a tiff.

[erwin greven]

edit

[Everso Biggyballies]

Toto has also been issued with a formal warning for the same bad language reason.... he also used the F word in the same rther irate press conference after FP1.

As it happened Tota was supporting the organisers and dismissing what had happened as a nothing event, one that has happened before.. (Would it have been a nothing event id it was on of his cars that was destroyed) As an aside the fact it has happened before, surely from the thought that you should learn from your mistakes to ensure that they dont get repeated is what makes the whole episode with the track unacceptable. That the FIA only gave the track its official homologation a day before FP1 also raises concerns at the level of due diligence in the track inspection. Anyway I digress, Back to the hearing of both Toto and Fred.....

The FIA reasoned: “Based on the submission from the FIA, the FIA regards language of this type to be unacceptable, moving forward, particularly when used by participants in the sport who have a high public profile and who are seen by many, especially younger, followers of the sport, as role models, and that in future the FIA will not tolerate the use of such language in FIA forums by any stakeholder.”

In the case of Wolff “the use of the language concerned was in this case unusual and was provoked by an abrupt interjection during the Press Conference and therefore cannot be regarded as typical from this Team Principal”.

As for Vasseur, the FIA noted: “[he] was extremely upset and frustrated by the incident that had occurred in FP1 and that language such as this, by him, was not usual.”

Wolff’s comments followed a highly charged moment of the press conference where his response to a question asking how the Vegas track issue could not be considered a "a black eye for Formula 1" was interrupted by another reporter.