Ranking Niki Lauda's F1 cars!

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Re: Ranking Niki Lauda's F1 cars!

Post by erwin greven » 2 months ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Agree with that. Now it is known that Ronnie was fast in whatever he drove. But he was not a driver who could develop a car. I wonder how Niki thought about that particular car.
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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

Trying to breathe some life into this thread. I've put forth my opinion in the 3rd thread temporarily.
Last edited by XcraigX 2 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by PTRACER » 2 months ago

With such a topic, you need to take control and moderate the discussion :wink: The three or four people who are taking part have already given their opinion on the cars offered. So introduce the next stage of the topic and tag a few people.
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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

So now we need to settle 7th and 8th place. I'm thinking the MP4/1B from 1982 was better than the BT46 (our 9th place car), but maybe not as good as the Ferrari 312B3-74 with Niki's refined setup from the BRM.
XcraigX wrote:
3 months ago

7th - 1974 Ferrari 312B3-74
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Vastly improved thanks to Niki's inputs.


8th - 1982 McLaren MP4/1B
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2 wins an a podium. Had potential.

Share your thoughts on this


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Post by caneparo » 2 months ago

It s a close challenge. Both cars provided wins and were contenders in the hands of lauda teamate. Very hard to choose one. I d say maybe the mclaren because of being technologicaly advanced at the time
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 months ago

caneparo wrote:
2 months ago
It s a close challenge. Both cars provided wins and were contenders in the hands of lauda teamate. Very hard to choose one. I d say maybe the mclaren because of being technologicaly advanced at the time
I kind of share Toni's thoughts. The (McLaren) car itself was very good, winning I think 4 races from the two drivers.... quite remarkable in a time where the likes of Brabham, Renault, Ferrari and others were using more powerful turbo engines, the McLaren using 'only' a DFV.
I remember the British GP where Lauda won, him beating the (podium finishing) Ferraris by half a minute.

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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 months ago
caneparo wrote:
2 months ago
It s a close challenge. Both cars provided wins and were contenders in the hands of lauda teamate. Very hard to choose one. I d say maybe the mclaren because of being technologicaly advanced at the time
I kind of share Toni's thoughts. The (McLaren) car itself was very good, winning I think 4 races from the two drivers.... quite remarkable in a time where the likes of Brabham, Renault, Ferrari and others were using more powerful turbo engines, the McLaren using 'only' a DFV.
I remember the British GP where Lauda won, him beating the (podium finishing) Ferraris by half a minute.
You guys are correct in stating this was a close one. I switched places between these two several times. So I'm comfortable changing them again.

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Post by ReneLotus » 2 months ago

Howdi again! Busy, busy with work.
Lauda's era was a bit before my time, so my perceptions may be a bit off.

I'd actually put the '74 Ferrari above the '82 McLaren. The McLaren was an innovative car, but never really stood out from the rest, whereas the Ferrari was always at or near the top of the field. Regazzoni might have won the title that year but for a wonky shock absorber.
The McLaren may have been innovative, but was competitive mainly due to the unreliability of everything with a turbo engine. That is also how Rosberg snuck his championship in.

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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

ReneLotus wrote:
2 months ago
Howdi again! Busy, busy with work.
Lauda's era was a bit before my time, so my perceptions may be a bit off.

I'd actually put the '74 Ferrari above the '82 McLaren. The McLaren was an innovative car, but never really stood out from the rest, whereas the Ferrari was always at or near the top of the field. Regazzoni might have won the title that year but for a wonky shock absorber.
The McLaren may have been innovative, but was competitive mainly due to the unreliability of everything with a turbo engine. That is also how Rosberg snuck his championship in.
Your input has given me additional validation to leave it with the Ferrari on top as I was thinking along those lines as well.

Anyone else want to chime in on these two before we move to the next set?

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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

So now let's discuss 5th and 6th places. For me the McLaren MP4/2B may be a decent car, but Prost beat Lauda to the championship in it. So perhaps it did not suit his style? Or did Niki hang on for one year too long? Either way, I did not think the car deserved to be higher than the 1976 Ferrari 312 T2. I feel the Ferrari 312 T2 should have been a champion winning car and most likely would have been if not for his crash. It's only ranked in 5th because of the dominance of some of the other cars.
5th - 1976 Ferrari 312 T2
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The car that almost killed him. Capable of a WDC, but it was not to be.


6th - 1985 McLaren MP4/2B
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Bad luck or driver favorites? Prost wins the WDC with it. Niki struggled.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 months ago

XcraigX wrote:
2 months ago
For me the McLaren MP4/2B may be a decent car, but Prost beat Lauda to the championship in it. So perhaps it did not suit his style? Or did Niki hang on for one year too long? Either way, I did not think the car deserved to be higher than the 1976 Ferrari 312 T2.
6th - 1985 McLaren MP4/2B
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Bad luck or driver favorites? Prost wins the WDC with it. Niki struggled.


I think the problem with Niki and the MP4/2B was one of horrendous reliability issues. I am not trying to create any conspiracy theories but Niki had by this time fallen out with Ron, and I believe he was receiving leftovers, less development / improved parts and/or less care in preparation of the car. Prost was certainly the favoured driver in the team by then. By Austria the situation was so bad that when Niki held a press conference to announce his season end retirement, Ron gatecrashed the press conference and showed his unsavoury side, standing up bagging and basically minimising Niki's part in the teams success.... it was all the car etc despite Niki's part in the success and his development skills which even Prost had acknowledged a key part of their success that had come McLaren's way since Niki had joined. Ron was pissed because he had wanted to retain Lauda for 1986.... and had offered good money. Niki told him basically to fuck off.

As an aside Lauda was beating Prost and leading that race when a turbo failure curtailed his race... Prost inherited the win. Lauda had taken the lead from the second row in the original race start (Prost had been on pole) before the race was red flagged after a crash in the midfield. When it was restarted Prost was in his spare car. Niki stalked Prost in the restart, passing him for the lead some 20 laps in, and held that position until his turbo failed 10 laps from the end.

Niki went into details about his problems with Ron/McLaren in 1985 which were published in his book To Hell and Back, published the following year)

In 1985 Niki suffered something like 10 mechanical DNFs, water leaks, electronic failures, gearbox problems, engine and turbo failures, brake failure, vibration issues. you name it he had problems with it.... against Prosts season total of I think one mech. DNF, a turbo failure in round 1. (He also was DSQd once for running underweight and had a couple of crash DNFs.)

Personally I would vote the Ferrari T2 higher than the McLaren. A car regardless of driver that cannot finish a race is to me not that flash. I think every race bar one that Niki actually finished (of which there were only 3) he scored points, but nothing better than one 4th and one 5th..

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Post by caneparo » 2 months ago

I m not getting something. It seems that 76 ferrari and 85 mclaren are ranked lower than the brabham alfa? The 76 car was better than 75 and won the constructors championship it was indeed better than 77 ferrari which suffered a lot the lotus 78.
My personal ranking would be
1 mclaren 84
2 ferrari 76
3 mclaren 85
4 ferrari 75
5 ferrari 77
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Post by XcraigX » 2 months ago

caneparo wrote:
2 months ago
I m not getting something. It seems that 76 ferrari and 85 mclaren are ranked lower than the brabham alfa? The 76 car was better than 75 and won the constructors championship it was indeed better than 77 ferrari which suffered a lot the lotus 78.
My personal ranking would be
1 mclaren 84
2 ferrari 76
3 mclaren 85
4 ferrari 75
5 ferrari 77
So you would rank 2 cars where Niki actually won the WDC below two cars where he did not? I disagree on that.

However, I do think I may have put the 76 Ferrari a bit too low. So thanks for your input on that.

But I have a really hard time ranking the 85 McLaren above the 75. I'm a bit fuzzy on the 77 and may have to do some more historical research.

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Post by sadsac » 2 months ago

For me personally the 77 Ferrari 312 T2 was ok

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Never liked the FAT design of the mid 80's Mclaren's

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Post by caneparo » 2 months ago

XcraigX wrote:
2 months ago
caneparo wrote:
2 months ago
I m not getting something. It seems that 76 ferrari and 85 mclaren are ranked lower than the brabham alfa? The 76 car was better than 75 and won the constructors championship it was indeed better than 77 ferrari which suffered a lot the lotus 78.
My personal ranking would be
1 mclaren 84
2 ferrari 76
3 mclaren 85
4 ferrari 75
5 ferrari 77
So you would rank 2 cars where Niki actually won the WDC below two cars where he did not? I disagree on that.

However, I do think I may have put the 76 Ferrari a bit too low. So thanks for your input on that.

But I have a really hard time ranking the 85 McLaren above the 75. I'm a bit fuzzy on the 77 and may have to do some more historical research.
Lauda was dominant on the t2, but he wasn t able to be on top because of the accident. The fact that ferrari won the wdc demonstrates that the t2 was the best car that year.
In 77 the lotus 78 came on the map and it proved to be the best car yet unreliable. Lauda was able to win the race capitalisying good performances and reliability of the car
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 months ago

Agree totally with what @caneparo says.

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