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2019 banter & Silly season thread for MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3

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Re: 2019 banter & Silly season thread for MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3

Post by Andy » 1 week ago

Last post from previous page:

MonteCristo wrote:
1 week ago
John wrote:
1 week ago
SB83 wrote:
1 week ago
While I applaud thinking out of the box and innovation in racing, I really don't want to see aerodynamics pollute this last bastion of proper racing like it has in F1, etc. and nip too much aero development in the bud before it becomes a crux for success.
I saw Mat Oxley post about this in length - apparently the bikes need some sort of aero to avoid excessive wheelies when putting the power down coming out of corners. They've simplified the electronics so much that the wheelie control isn't that effective anymore, that coupled with the insane amount of power these bikes have mean that the wings is a necessary evil.
Or, you ride to the limit the bike gives you. Need to apply less power? Do that.
In two smoke days it was announced like this : "You (the rider) have it in your right hand" ;)
Or like Steve Parrish usually announces it during another NW200 live commentary: "We have natural aerodynamics at work. If you sit up you brake."
It may sound far too simplified but it is the truth. Well, one truth you'll find if you ride yourself and try 180 km/h ducked in or 180 sitting up. Just watch you throttle position and feel your arms while sitting up ;)
:bye:
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Post by John » 1 week ago

But, really, is that what we want? The two smokes were mad bikes with a power band so wild it could have been thought up my someone in a mental asylum. But still, those bikes had roughly 200 BHP at it's peak. Today we're talking 250+ BHP plus rockets on wheels, I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the 270-280 range. These bikes are goddamn insane. Just as the two-strokes were insane.

But back then the riders weren't bunched up. Now we've got the closest grids ever. The 1-15 gap in races was 15 seconds at Qatar, the lowest it's ever been. And that gap has been plummeting for the past few years and will probably continue to tumble as KTM and Aprilia closes the gap (wait, replace "as" with "if).

Riders coming down and being hit by other bikes is currently the biggest danger in MotoGP now that the circuits are so safe. Shoya Tomizawa and Simoncelli are examples of that, and Salom died as a case of a poorly designed circuit combined with a tiny mistake on his own part. We could say that they should ride to the conditions, and leave it to their right hand, but I don't agree. I for one would not want to see drivers poodle around at 60% of the pace that they could run because they're not given the tools to ride 100%.

I don't think that they've gone overboard with the aero, DORNA is keeping a close eye on it and they've scaled it back to a point where it still allows the riders to slow the bikes down with excessive wheel hopping and bikes coming out from under them. If the price to pay for that is tiny winglets, then by all means, go for it, if the option is removing the unified ECU and allow Honda to run away with things and increase the gaps between the bikes.

This does not mean that we're even close to going down the F1-route where the cars are boring to watch, and besides Monaco and Singapore, not especially challenging to drive. These bikes are incredibly challenging to drive with a poor ECU and constant threat of wheelies. You still need to be extremely sublime and skilled to ride these things on the edge, wings or not.

Plus, like I've stated before. Riders like Rossi and Marquez is far too valuable to have killed. Sure, they risk it every time they go out there, but there's no need to increase that risk ten-fold.
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Post by kals » 1 week ago

Moto E won’t be commencing any time soon. There was a fire in the Jerez paddock overnight which destroyed all 18 bikes. The series was in Jerez for testing and had just completed the first day.

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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 week ago

Jewish stocktake? (No offence to any Jews, just sayin') :wink:

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Post by kals » 1 week ago

The Ducati winglet situation has yet to be resolved, with the matter under appeal from other manufacturers. Here’s additional information on how the dispute occurred, it originated from Aprilia
Aprilia Racing CEO Massimo Rivola says the Italian marque was informed by MotoGP officials in February that running a winglet in front of the rear wheel would be illegal.

Rivola, who joined the Aprilia MotoGP squad from the Ferrari Formula 1 team this year, was one of the driving forces behind the protest filed in the wake of Andrea Dovizioso's victory in last weekend's Qatar season opener, as the squad ran a winglet in front of the rear wheel.

Honda, Suzuki and KTM joined Aprilia in making a formal complaint about the legality of a new winglet that Dovizioso, Danilo Petrucci and Jack Miller all ran in the Losail event, a piece Ducati claims was designed only to cool the rear wheel.

The protest was thrown out by stewards before being referred to the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme [FIM] Court of Appeals.



Rivola revealed that Aprilia had been looking into running a similar device, only to be informed by MotoGP technical director Danny Aldridge on February 19 that it would only be permissible to run it in wet conditions, as Yamaha did in Valencia last year.

"In the last race of last year, in Valencia, Yamaha used a kind of spoon attached to the swingarm that dispersed water in the event of rain and was considered legal on safety grounds," Rivola told Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport.

"That solution opened our eyes.

"So much so that at the beginning of the year we asked the technical delegate if we could go and develop something in that area, where we know there is performance to be gained.

"Aldridge's answer on February 19 reiterated however that a similar solution can only be mounted in wet conditions. As a result, we stopped."

He added regarding the protest: "Ours was not an action [specifically] against Ducati, we don't want to spite anyone.

"What I find serious is that the email in which we were denied a similar solution was dated February 19, and after a week [March 2] there is another one that was clearly studied at length by Ducati."

Rivola said he feels it is clear that running the winglet produces an aerodynamic benefit, while also pointing out that the fact it is mounted to the swingarm - a moving part - arguably makes it a moveable aerodynamic device.

"What this element does, it's quite easy to work out," he said.

"A simple study of fluid dynamics shows that everything you do at the front has an effect on what is behind.

"In this area the air is very fast, if you attach a winglet it generates a load. There doesn't seem to be much to discuss.

"A wing cannot be mobile. This [winglet] is not in itself, but if you attach it to a swingarm that is mobile, it has a different effect depending on whether you are braking or not."

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Post by Vassago » 1 week ago

They were supposed to ban all the damn winglets but sure enough bending the rules is always the way to go. Ducati got this grey area figured out the best so it's obvious they are trying to fly under the radar once again.

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Post by kals » 1 week ago

The justification from Ducati that the device is purely for tyre cooling is laughable in it's brazen audacity. It's like saying the function of these are only for keeping your hands warm

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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

kals wrote:
1 week ago
Moto E won’t be commencing any time soon. There was a fire in the Jerez paddock overnight which destroyed all 18 bikes. The series was in Jerez for testing and had just completed the first day.
Having seen Ian Loughers TTzero burning up at Quarry Bends at TT during Friday practice last year and the lack of action we as marshals could take, apart from evacuating spectators from the scene because of the wind changing every 60secs direction and the truly dangerous nature of burning batteries along with the fire fumes, I became really wary with E-racing. In the same session, another E-bike burned up at the bottom of Barregarrow which delayed my return with the marshal shuttle for about 1h to be back at grandstand by 11.30pm. Before I even had arrived back at the grandstand my mate Frank (mechanic with Lewis Blackstock and Patrick Rosney outfit) reported another fire involving the University of Nottingham e-bike in paddock.

I'm wary with these beasts, mainly from the health aspect. I mean what are you going to do if one these things decides to burn up at say Assen on start finish line. Are they going to evacuate the entire grandstand?
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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

John wrote:
1 week ago
But, really, is that what we want? The two smokes were mad bikes with a power band so wild it could have been thought up my someone in a mental asylum. But still, those bikes had roughly 200 BHP at it's peak. Today we're talking 250+ BHP plus rockets on wheels, I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the 270-280 range. These bikes are goddamn insane. Just as the two-strokes were insane.

But back then the riders weren't bunched up. Now we've got the closest grids ever. The 1-15 gap in races was 15 seconds at Qatar, the lowest it's ever been. And that gap has been plummeting for the past few years and will probably continue to tumble as KTM and Aprilia closes the gap (wait, replace "as" with "if).

Riders coming down and being hit by other bikes is currently the biggest danger in MotoGP now that the circuits are so safe. Shoya Tomizawa and Simoncelli are examples of that, and Salom died as a case of a poorly designed circuit combined with a tiny mistake on his own part. We could say that they should ride to the conditions, and leave it to their right hand, but I don't agree. I for one would not want to see drivers poodle around at 60% of the pace that they could run because they're not given the tools to ride 100%.

I don't think that they've gone overboard with the aero, DORNA is keeping a close eye on it and they've scaled it back to a point where it still allows the riders to slow the bikes down with excessive wheel hopping and bikes coming out from under them. If the price to pay for that is tiny winglets, then by all means, go for it, if the option is removing the unified ECU and allow Honda to run away with things and increase the gaps between the bikes.

This does not mean that we're even close to going down the F1-route where the cars are boring to watch, and besides Monaco and Singapore, not especially challenging to drive. These bikes are incredibly challenging to drive with a poor ECU and constant threat of wheelies. You still need to be extremely sublime and skilled to ride these things on the edge, wings or not.

Plus, like I've stated before. Riders like Rossi and Marquez is far too valuable to have killed. Sure, they risk it every time they go out there, but there's no need to increase that risk ten-fold.
I know you won't like the reference I'm making now but here it goes.
In more recent years superbikes and superstock bikes got ever so closer to each other at the Isle of Man TT, with a current margin of 1-2mph average on a lap around the mountain course. Now superbikes at the TT are these highend machines with all these little neat extra features while the superstocks are bikes you can buy at your local dealer. Just the tires are indeed race tires.
So let me repeat. You can achieve almost similar lap times to superbikes with an almost full stock 1000hp bike. And this goes to show that these gadgets do not make a high percentage of the performance, especially in a terrain where one would think that nice little aids improve lap times much more. It is neat to have them perhaps but not necessary at all.

A frontrunner will be fast on both and that's why I do not like those aids at all. They could be ripped off entirely but the fast lads still will be fast. It is a blinder thrown by Dorna and advertisement. That's all about it
If you are not willing to risk the unusual,you will have to settle for the ordinary-Jim Rohn

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