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Thank you so much for those new photos vontrips!! I am currently editing videos, but when I have some time I will get them uploaded to the database! I wonder whether we should avoid uploading the most distressing photos though...I suppose the warning is in place and there are other bad crashes on there too.1967 Monaco - Bandini's fatal crash
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I think Every Additional information is welcome, it is not a post -style "face of death" , I believe it is only information about this accident. the most sensitive people should avoid content with warning " graphic content" .
its my opinion, I understand your concern , feel free to do what is best .
=)
its my opinion, I understand your concern , feel free to do what is best .
=)
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The warning is clear enough, isn't it?vontrips61 wrote:I think Every Additional information is welcome, it is not a post -style "face of death" , I believe it is only information about this accident. the most sensitive people should avoid content with warning " graphic content" .
its my opinion, I understand your concern , feel free to do what is best .
=)
Developer of the 1967v3 Historic Mod for Grand Prix Legends: viewtopic.php?t=17429
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A simple:
Fatal accident / Graphic images
Fatal accident / Graphic images
will do...
Huge warnings and then tons of enters is a bit distracting.
Fatal accident / Graphic images
will do...
Huge warnings and then tons of enters is a bit distracting.
Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
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Hallo everyone.
I was very interested in this topic, expecially lurking the topic on the italian forum (sorry guys, I'm just lurking!).
Well, surfing the web I found this:
Well... obvious... the movie in the following link shows a fatal accident
https://vimeo.com/120385615
The movie in the link above shows a fatal accident
I'm sure the Lojacono's video is already well known. What's interesting here is the 3fps frame rate used here, that allows to distinguish more details than at full speed.
To me it looks like Bandini loses the rear entering the chicane, before to hit the inside wall. He is very quick to correct the drift, but the oversteer sends him to touch the inside wall and then to the outside barriers, where he crashes.
I'm making the idea the hit onto the inside wall was inconsequential, Bandini had already oversteered and with or without the touch at that point he would have crash anyway.
Anyone with my same impression?
I was very interested in this topic, expecially lurking the topic on the italian forum (sorry guys, I'm just lurking!).
Well, surfing the web I found this:
Well... obvious... the movie in the following link shows a fatal accident
https://vimeo.com/120385615
The movie in the link above shows a fatal accident
I'm sure the Lojacono's video is already well known. What's interesting here is the 3fps frame rate used here, that allows to distinguish more details than at full speed.
To me it looks like Bandini loses the rear entering the chicane, before to hit the inside wall. He is very quick to correct the drift, but the oversteer sends him to touch the inside wall and then to the outside barriers, where he crashes.
I'm making the idea the hit onto the inside wall was inconsequential, Bandini had already oversteered and with or without the touch at that point he would have crash anyway.
Anyone with my same impression?
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a bit in the wall prevented more effective correction at the exit of the chicane , it should have been thrown heavily to the right leaving him just wait for the clash against the bars.
overspeed is my opinion
overspeed is my opinion
Last edited by vontrips61 8 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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I fully agree with you!!vontrips61 wrote:a bit in the wall prevented more effective correction at the exit of the chicane , it should have been thrown sharply to the right leaving him just wait for the clash against the bars.
overspeed is my opinion
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It could be caused by or a problem with the gear box or simply over-revving the engine which causes the rear wheels to lock or slide.ulibarra wrote:To me it looks like Bandini loses the rear entering the chicane, before to hit the inside wall. He is very quick to correct the drift, but the oversteer sends him to touch the inside wall and then to the outside barriers, where he crashes.
Over-revving by gearing down too fast, can be caused by an exhausted driver.
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Or the opposite: giving credit to the rumors said the shiftgear was found in 5th speed, instead than 3rd, could explain such drift: Bandini was negotiating the line, tried to shift down to 3rd but for whatever reason the 5th engaged instead.erwin greven wrote:Over-revving by gearing down too fast, can be caused by an exhausted driver.
The engine was revved for the 3rd, and so it was too high for 5th. When the clutch was released the excess of torque caused the rear to oversteer.
Then the following events.
Why 5th engaged? Who knows. A driver error? It could be possible, shifting errors was quite common in that era, even for relaxed drivers. Gearbox trouble? It's possible, Monaco was very demanding on transmission, and also gearbox trouble was quite common.
Finally, it looks to me a so small error, or a so small mechanical trouble, that in whatever else situation it would be solved with a couple of tenth lost. Bandini has a so enormous bad luck instead, and payed an excessive toll, to have that trouble in the worst place and in the worst moment.
I'm convinced that if a guardrail was installed instead of strawbales, probably Bandini would simply touch the rail and slide on it for some meters. It's not unreasonable he could continue the race too, or in the worst case he would stop with a damaged wheel.
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Taken from Autosport
Giulio Borsari's memories of that day from Ruoteclassiche "Ferrari che Gente":
Borsari was very close to Bandini ("he was like a brother") and at Monaco that day he was the one who was signalling to him:
"It's easy to say that we should have called him in because he was tired. I knew that he was tired. After a point he was not responding to my signals. He made 10 overtakings and this causes extreme effort. But Monaco was his race. He lost it twice in the past. How could anyone stop him? Who could take the responsibility of excluding him from a possible victory? I hoped that it was a temporary situation and he would recover as had happened in the past. But Lorenzo did not recover and he made the mistake. Later when examining the car, the gearbox was in 5th. He did not downshift exiting from the tunnel, he did not slow down."
from a lot of people who seen him racing that day who all said he was drifting and clipping kerbs and even his head was seen to be dropping alot as if he was near exausted tired
Giulio Borsari's memories of that day from Ruoteclassiche "Ferrari che Gente":
Borsari was very close to Bandini ("he was like a brother") and at Monaco that day he was the one who was signalling to him:
"It's easy to say that we should have called him in because he was tired. I knew that he was tired. After a point he was not responding to my signals. He made 10 overtakings and this causes extreme effort. But Monaco was his race. He lost it twice in the past. How could anyone stop him? Who could take the responsibility of excluding him from a possible victory? I hoped that it was a temporary situation and he would recover as had happened in the past. But Lorenzo did not recover and he made the mistake. Later when examining the car, the gearbox was in 5th. He did not downshift exiting from the tunnel, he did not slow down."
from a lot of people who seen him racing that day who all said he was drifting and clipping kerbs and even his head was seen to be dropping alot as if he was near exausted tired
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sadsac wrote:Taken from Autosport
Giulio Borsari's memories of that day from Ruoteclassiche "Ferrari che Gente":
Borsari was very close to Bandini ("he was like a brother") and at Monaco that day he was the one who was signalling to him:
"It's easy to say that we should have called him in because he was tired. I knew that he was tired. After a point he was not responding to my signals. He made 10 overtakings and this causes extreme effort. But Monaco was his race. He lost it twice in the past. How could anyone stop him? Who could take the responsibility of excluding him from a possible victory? I hoped that it was a temporary situation and he would recover as had happened in the past. But Lorenzo did not recover and he made the mistake. Later when examining the car, the gearbox was in 5th. He did not downshift exiting from the tunnel, he did not slow down."
from a lot of people who seen him racing that day who all said he was drifting and clipping kerbs and even his head was seen to be dropping alot as if he was near exausted tired
This story is incredible. According to his friend, and probably several others present , they should have realized this fatigue . Exit the fifth gear tunnel and not reduce ( at least for third gear that is was normal) confirms this account , too much speed. we can say that the fatigue caused by the desire to win has led to this tragic end ? The available video ( the whole race ) we see clearly that there was an incident in the tunnel , perhaps for that mistake he stressed that much?
Why when bandini is second, Hill being laggard leaves Hulme spend quiet , however when Bandini approaches , there is clearly Hill accelerates your machine, making it difficult to pass ? Mrs. Margarita can not blame only Brabham for throwing oil on the entire track , I think we have many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle...
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Borsari did not remember well the race; is belied his claim that he had gone into a spin, and, as I read now, who has completed 10 overtaking: not a single one made it (Hill was lapped).
That resulting from reconstructions and witnesses is just the opposite. Bandini was constantly under pressure from the team, with two reports every lap. Bandini has unequivocally responded to the signals, with a shrug of the hands, 81. lap, implying that he could do no more than that (to get close to Hulme).
Borsari, sorry to say, it seems to me that with his statements, was trying to cleanse the conscience of its responsibilities and of the team (helped by memories dimmed by time and pain).
Here a slow motion of the moment it touches:
That resulting from reconstructions and witnesses is just the opposite. Bandini was constantly under pressure from the team, with two reports every lap. Bandini has unequivocally responded to the signals, with a shrug of the hands, 81. lap, implying that he could do no more than that (to get close to Hulme).
Borsari, sorry to say, it seems to me that with his statements, was trying to cleanse the conscience of its responsibilities and of the team (helped by memories dimmed by time and pain).
Here a slow motion of the moment it touches:
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[/quote]ascari66 wrote:
Why when bandini is second, Hill being laggard leaves Hulme spend quiet , however when Bandini approaches , there is clearly Hill accelerates your machine, making it difficult to pass ? Mrs. Margarita can not blame only Brabham for throwing oil on the entire track , I think we have many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle...
In 1964 in Mexico GP there was an incident . Hill needed the third to be champion, all is well when on lap 31 Bandini hits your car in harpin , ending his chance of the championship. With this result John Surtees (bandini mate) was the champion by one single point. not believe it was revenge, but things like that we never forget ...
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About the fact he was tired or not we can just speculate. Different witnesses said he answered to signals, sometimes in angry too as to say "I can't do more!".sadsac wrote:Giulio Borsari's memories of that day from Ruoteclassiche "Ferrari che Gente":
"[...]Later when examining the car, the gearbox was in 5th. He did not downshift exiting from the tunnel, he did not slow down."
Staying to the fact, the Lojacono video refutes the Borsari impressions.
From the video is clear that Bandini is not enormously overspeed. The speed is quite normal, perhaps a bit too fast like someone is going to the limit; anyway it's not the result of someone that was totally out and "forgot" to brake.
If things were as Borsari said, and Bandini was in 5th gear because he "forgot" to shift down, the Ferrari should arrive at a so enormous speed to miss completeley the chicane.
Instead, he is at a normal speed on a normal line. He just loses the rear for a moment, and it's fast to correct it: another point that refutes the idea of an exausted driver that dosn't know where he is.
Bandini was lucid, answering to box's signals, and pushing the car to its limit to close on Hulme.
I think he had simply the worst luck.
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IMO a warning on graphic pictures is enough. Death is part of life and part of racing.PTRACER wrote:Thank you so much for those new photos vontrips!! I am currently editing videos, but when I have some time I will get them uploaded to the database! I wonder whether we should avoid uploading the most distressing photos though...I suppose the warning is in place and there are other bad crashes on there too.
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I've read an interview to Bandin's widow where she said that despite Hill was very disappointed for the infamouse mexican GP accident because he thought Bandini did it on purpose, he never showed a bad attitude regarding Bandini. In fact the only thing he did was sending him a book for a driving licence as a chrsitmas gift; just british humor, nothing evil.vontrips61 wrote:In 1964 in Mexico GP there was an incident . Hill needed the third to be champion, all is well when on lap 31 Bandini hits your car in harpin , ending his chance of the championship. With this result John Surtees (bandini mate) was the champion by one single point. not believe it was revenge, but things like that we never forget ...ascari66 wrote:
Why when bandini is second, Hill being laggard leaves Hulme spend quiet , however when Bandini approaches , there is clearly Hill accelerates your machine, making it difficult to pass ? Mrs. Margarita can not blame only Brabham for throwing oil on the entire track , I think we have many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle...
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