World Superbikes and Supports 2018 Discussion

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Re: World Superbikes and Supports 2018 Discussion

Post by Andy » 2 years ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Markus Reiterberger became the final Superstock 1000 champion at Magny-Cours yesterday after it was announced that the series will be canned from 2019 after 19 years of running. He was close to throw it away though but ultimately secured 3rd place and the title.

In World Supersport 300 Ana Carrasco became the first female rider to win a singles road racing championship by one point after a cracking race and a bonkers final lap. Early leader and best bet for the championship Scott Deroue had a mechanical halfway through which left Mike Perez the big chance of the title if he would finish one or two. Ana Carrasco had problems all weekend long and started from 25th only. Her progress looked like coming to a halt midway when she was stuck in 19th position but a couple dnf's in front of her made life a bit easier. Still she would have had to finish in tenth position, given that Perez finished either one or two. With the final starting, Ana was up to 13th but far away from the 10th place target but Perez needed to win now. In what was a bonkers final lap, with position changes all around, Mike Perez lost out in the battle for 1st while Ana Carrasco made another position on the run towards the finish line for 12th and championship securing position, by one single point. For almost 3/4th of the following lap back in she seemingly thought that she lost it until someone pointed it out her.

In the world supersport 600 race, which was concurrently run with the European Supersport Championship, Dutchman Rob Hartog secured the ESS title.

In WSB, Johnny Rea won both races and became the most successfull wsb rider by victories and championships from Carl Fogarty.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

Congrats to Ana Carrasco and to the other champions.

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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 years ago
Congrats to Ana Carrasco and to the other champions.
That's what I watched instead of F1 ;)
Championship decided in the final corner of the final race and not by victory even but by a charge for positions. This was one of the most exciting championship deciders I've seen to date.
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Post by Cheeveer » 2 years ago

So Jonathan Rea doesn't have a license to ride a motorcycle on the road?

Ok.
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Post by kals » 2 years ago

Cheeveer wrote:
2 years ago
So Jonathan Rea doesn't have a license to ride a motorcycle on the road?

Ok.
Huh?

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Post by Vassago » 2 years ago

Andy wrote:
2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 years ago
Congrats to Ana Carrasco and to the other champions.
That's what I watched instead of F1 ;)
Championship decided in the final corner of the final race and not by victory even but by a charge for positions. This was one of the most exciting championship deciders I've seen to date.
Polish commentators were talking about the SSP300 during the Aragon round and basically called it a wild west championship since apparently every manufacturer fields a bike with different horse power. They said since it's new on the scene they can get away with it for a while but they'll have to create standard rules to avoid all the potential loophole infractions that are there to be exposed under the current formula. 400cc sounded like the most optimal solution. All in all, they were pretty low on it's value and given it's occupied by Moto3 drop-outs then I can't blame them. Overall, the Polish crew is pretty low on the entire SBK scene given how boring and predictable it has become and the fact none of the top SBK riders are even considered for serious MotoGP seats.
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

Vassago wrote:
2 years ago
Andy wrote:
2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 years ago
Congrats to Ana Carrasco and to the other champions.
That's what I watched instead of F1 ;)
Championship decided in the final corner of the final race and not by victory even but by a charge for positions. This was one of the most exciting championship deciders I've seen to date.
Polish commentators were talking about the SSP300 during the Aragon round and basically called it a wild west championship since apparently every manufacturer fields a bike with different horse power. They said since it's new on the scene they can get away with it for a while but they'll have to create standard rules to avoid all the potential loophole infractions that are there to be exposed under the current formula. 400cc sounded like the most optimal solution. All in all, they were pretty low on it's value and given it's occupied by Moto3 drop-outs then I can't blame them. Overall, the Polish crew is pretty low on the entire SBK scene given how boring and predictable it has become and the fact none of the top SBK riders are even considered for serious MotoGP seats.
I wouldn't call it Wild West.
The difference in horsepower comes from how you are able to develop the bike. In the end, like in any other motorsport, the machines capabilities are determined by the teams bank accounts. Much like in the now defunct 500/250/125 world championships until about 20 years ago where you could field a 125 as a privateer but still could come away with decent results. However, the SSP300 as well as the SSP600 are both providing some fantastic racing and this series has much more appeal to me than a standard everything bar the engine formula. A decent rider will shine on a top bike from time to time but an exceptional good rider will still get results out of a piece of shit.

True, the SBK races are pretty boring but I suspect that there, again like in other premium series', the one make tire makes the difference no matter how much you invest to understand it. And I'd like to point out that there often have been 'premium' tire shenangians with top teams in one make series. I'm quite sure, for instance, that Mick Schumachers rise in F3 since mid season is purely down to premium tire shenangians to make his team but more so him, shine brighter. And Pirelli did it before as well, famously in the WSB.

But especially in WSB, you have to also look at the who pays what. Kawasaki, for instance, pays a full works support directly from Japan while Yamaha and Honda are financed through their European distributors, who have to raise the money themself, more or less. They get the engines but from there, they're on their own.
A final point to make. Superbikes are a different beast than MotoGP prototypes. Superbikes are still stock bikes where certain developments are allowed, but they are different beasts to ride and WSB ain't a feeder series for MotoGP anyway. And to turn your argument around, how are the ex-MotoGP riders doing in Superbike, those that make/made the jump?
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Post by Cheeveer » 2 years ago

kals wrote:
2 years ago
Cheeveer wrote:
2 years ago
So Jonathan Rea doesn't have a license to ride a motorcycle on the road?

Ok.
Huh?
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

Cheeveer wrote:
2 years ago
kals wrote:
2 years ago
Cheeveer wrote:
2 years ago
So Jonathan Rea doesn't have a license to ride a motorcycle on the road?

Ok.
Huh?
This might come as a surprise but a fair lot of the current world championship riders as well as a couple of national championship riders do not have a road license and do not intend on doing one. For track racing a road license ain't a requirement anyway
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Post by erwin greven » 2 years ago

SBK rider Yonny Hernandez sacked after hotel mix-up


Colombian rider Yonny Hernandez has been released by his Superbike World Championship team Pedercini after he missed last weekend’s Magny-Cours race due to a hotel mix-up.

According to German outlet Motorsport Total, Hernandez arrived late for the event and without a hotel reservation. After his hunt for a vacancy in the area drew a blank, he left without competing. The mishap followed a similar incident in May, when Hernandez missed the Donington round after failing to secure a visa.

Hernandez, who had inked a contract extension for 2019 with Pedercini just a few weeks ago, was replaced in France by Jeremy Guarnoni, while Gabriel Ruiu has been given the call-up by the customer Kawasaki team for the final two rounds in Argentina and Qatar.

Hernandez arrived in the SBK championship this year with a resume that included 87 MotoGP starts between 2012 and 2016, but failed to make an impact and currently sits 18th in the standings with just 28 points and a best finish of 11th.
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Post by Vassago » 2 years ago

Andy wrote:
2 years ago
Vassago wrote:
2 years ago
Andy wrote:
2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 years ago
Congrats to Ana Carrasco and to the other champions.
That's what I watched instead of F1 ;)
Championship decided in the final corner of the final race and not by victory even but by a charge for positions. This was one of the most exciting championship deciders I've seen to date.
Polish commentators were talking about the SSP300 during the Aragon round and basically called it a wild west championship since apparently every manufacturer fields a bike with different horse power. They said since it's new on the scene they can get away with it for a while but they'll have to create standard rules to avoid all the potential loophole infractions that are there to be exposed under the current formula. 400cc sounded like the most optimal solution. All in all, they were pretty low on it's value and given it's occupied by Moto3 drop-outs then I can't blame them. Overall, the Polish crew is pretty low on the entire SBK scene given how boring and predictable it has become and the fact none of the top SBK riders are even considered for serious MotoGP seats.
I wouldn't call it Wild West.
The difference in horsepower comes from how you are able to develop the bike. In the end, like in any other motorsport, the machines capabilities are determined by the teams bank accounts. Much like in the now defunct 500/250/125 world championships until about 20 years ago where you could field a 125 as a privateer but still could come away with decent results. However, the SSP300 as well as the SSP600 are both providing some fantastic racing and this series has much more appeal to me than a standard everything bar the engine formula. A decent rider will shine on a top bike from time to time but an exceptional good rider will still get results out of a piece of shit.

True, the SBK races are pretty boring but I suspect that there, again like in other premium series', the one make tire makes the difference no matter how much you invest to understand it. And I'd like to point out that there often have been 'premium' tire shenangians with top teams in one make series. I'm quite sure, for instance, that Mick Schumachers rise in F3 since mid season is purely down to premium tire shenangians to make his team but more so him, shine brighter. And Pirelli did it before as well, famously in the WSB.

But especially in WSB, you have to also look at the who pays what. Kawasaki, for instance, pays a full works support directly from Japan while Yamaha and Honda are financed through their European distributors, who have to raise the money themself, more or less. They get the engines but from there, they're on their own.
A final point to make. Superbikes are a different beast than MotoGP prototypes. Superbikes are still stock bikes where certain developments are allowed, but they are different beasts to ride and WSB ain't a feeder series for MotoGP anyway. And to turn your argument around, how are the ex-MotoGP riders doing in Superbike, those that make/made the jump?
WSB is a lower-league series compared to MotoGP these days. Kawasaki is a big fish in a very small pond but all the MotoGP transfers are basically cast-offs rather than star name signings. What can I say, since Ducati joined MotoGP, WSB has bottomed out and is crawling around while MotoGP only thrives. BMW was supposed to be a true sleeper but they've given up on that project wholesale. It's a massive turnaround even from the late Troy Bayliss era. And I don't even want to compare that to the Fogarty/Russell/Slight heyday. Jonny Rea might beat all the Fogarty records but he's two if not three levels below him overall IMO. Van der Mark is probably the only WSB rider I'd give a shot in MotoGP right now.

SSP300 has all the thrills but the star power is bleak tbh. It's barely above club level IMO. The only thing missing are some Polish riders there :tongue:
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

MotoGP = Full factory prototypes ; WSB = tuned stock bikes

In terms of BMW, there are rumours they'll be back with full factory support for Markus Reiterberger next year.
Slight and Russell still raced in the 750cc superbike days, not quite sure whether Foggy joined in then or already sat on the 1000cc when he joined the series. To be honest, WSB never really fed GP500 nor its successor MotoGP. Superbikes are a different ballgame than prototypes.

Star power? Where do you have that in Moto3, for example?
I don't watch racing because of the names but the excitement it generates.
Polish riders? Try the EWC or even more so the Alpe Adria Cup, for instance. Probably not enough names in it for some, but exciting racing nontheless. Besides, even in WSB there is just a top crop being paid, the others are have to get sponsors along to secure rides and the lower the class, the worse it gets in this regard. Not just in WSS and WSS300 but also in Moto2 and Moto3. And do not forget, series such as WSS300 and Moto3 act as feeder series with an age limit of currently 28. Once you have the outstanding rider in such a series it is most likely that he or she will move up on the spot, given they are able to pay / have the financial backing through sponsors.

Take Danny Webb for example. Raced in 125cc/Moto3, wasn't able to get the financial backing and moved to real roads as well as endurance. I find it exciting to see, how he rose from a 125cc/Moto3 racer to a continental real road racing champion as well as an endurance world championship runner up. I've a mate who races the real roads as a full privateer, and came home as best superbike privateer at the TT a couple times but never got signed by a top team. The potential is there, no question but it takes more than just potential, unfortunately.
In fact, I'm currently getting involved in fundraising for him, so he can do the TT and a few road races next year, at least.
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Post by Vassago » 2 years ago

Lord have mercy, three WSB races per weekend next season. As if Rea couldn't laugh at those Fogarty records any louder :haha:

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2018/Th ... 0in%202019

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Crap. Rea can easily aim at 20 wins per season now :bye:
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

WSBK turns to 3 race format for 2019.

WSBK is adding a third, sprint type race to their weekend format. The Sprint race will be used to set the grid for I presume the Sunday race, whilst Superpole will be retained for Saturdays race..

Is it really the way to go? The way things are atm it just seems like an opportunity for Rea to win 3 races every weekend.

Final details of the new format are still to be finalised.

The Superbike World Championship will employ a new three-race format next year, starting with the season-opener at Phillip Island.

WorldSBK has employed a two-race format since its inception in 1988, but will now add a sprint race to the mix on Sundays.

The longer races will continue to be split across Saturday and Sunday, and Superpole will still be used to set the grid for the former.

However, the sprint race will set the grid for the latter, instead of the convoluted partial reverse grid which was introduced last year.

“To bring in a third ‘sprint race’ into the WorldSBK format for 2019 is something we have been planning for a long time now, so we are delighted to see the plans coming together,” said WorldSBK Executive Director Daniel Carrera.

“We are committed to bringing exciting races to the fans year on year, and we think the addition of a sprint race will add to the WorldSBK experience.

“We are continuing to work on the final adjustments and hope to bring more details in the near future.”

WorldSBK changed format to move the first race of the weekend onto Saturday afternoons in 2016.

The partial reverse grid that came into effect in 2017 sees the top three finishers from Race 1 reversed and put back to Row 3 for the start of Race 2, with fourth through ninth elevated to first through sixth in the same order.

Full details of the new weekend format are still to be announced.
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Post by MonteCristo » 2 years ago

Urgh. Too much.
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

I read about it one or two weeks ago before it was officially put out and I must say I'm not happy with it as much as I wasn't happy with the Saturday / Sunday split already. Furthermore, Dorna decided to get rid of the German and Czech rounds to introduce another Spanish round at Aragon just as if Spain doesn't have enough motorcycle racing yet. Donington is on the radar as well, and the summer date next year looks like a final attempt of a British round as well. On top of having already canned the Superstock 1000 and looking into 'developing' the 600 Supersports.

The truth is, the Dorna has absolutely no clue what they should do with the entire package, except from WSS300 maybe, which might be easier to promote for a short time thanks to Ana Carrascos world championship.
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