2018 banter & silly season thread for MotoGP, Moto2 & Moto3

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caneparo
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Re: 2018 banter & silly season thread for MotoGP, Moto2 & Moto3

Post by caneparo » 2 years ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Fantastic win for marquez. Dovi gave it all, but he lost where it was impossible to keep it. It was a nice race. Marquez is already a 5 times moto gp champion, and this year he didn’t do it with a dominant bike. He developed the race strategy he was lacking before.
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

John wrote:
2 years ago
While the stewards messed that decision up, there's no doubting his extraordinary ability as a bike racer. There's a good chance we'll remember him as the finest rider of all time when he retires. He's already the best of his generation.

As for the rookie rule, who cares? Good thing Honda pushed it through, to allow us to see premiere talents at the premiere level.
Extraordinary bullshit.
I'm a marshal but I surely do not want to marshal such a bullshit and even worse being put at risk and have that behaviour nodded off as well.

Amazingly and dangerously close to Formula 1 what the Dorna is promoting here.
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Post by Vassago » 2 years ago

Neither Dorna nor Liberty cannot afford their top product being dismissed as "boring". Marquez/Lorenzo Honda rivalry is a dream scenario for Dorna ;)
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Post by John » 2 years ago

I thought the Argentine GP had been discussed already. He should have been DSQ-ed from that race. IMHO. He wasn't, because Dorna can't wrap their heads around on how to punish drivers. A one race ban would have been good as well.

But regardless of that, he would have won the championship, albeit it would have lived on for another round. He's the best rider on the planet. End of story.
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Post by John » 2 years ago

Things MotoGP drivers do before races > Things F1 drivers to before weekend.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

Vassago wrote:
2 years ago
They say Alvaro Bautista could replace him at P.I. :smiley:
Queenslander Mike Jones will join the MotoGP grid this weekend at the Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix to fill the Angel Nieto Team seat vacated by Alvaro Bautista who, as @Vassago predicted has replaced JLo at Ducati.

Jones will ride a Desmosedici GP16 as Nieto’s other pilot, Karel Abraham, takes the GP17 normally ridden by Bautista at Phillip Island.

The start is set to be Jones’ third in MotoGP after he performed a similar substitute role at Avintia Racing at Motegi and Phillip Island in 2016, scoring a world championship point in the latter race.

Jones won the 2015 Australian Superbike Championship and this year finished fourth in Spanish Superstock 1000.

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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

John wrote:
2 years ago
......

But regardless of that, he would have won the championship, albeit it would have lived on for another round. He's the best rider on the planet. End of story.
And that saves him from punishment? Thanks, for the info.
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Post by John » 2 years ago

Andy wrote:
2 years ago
John wrote:
2 years ago
......

But regardless of that, he would have won the championship, albeit it would have lived on for another round. He's the best rider on the planet. End of story.
And that saves him from punishment? Thanks, for the info.
He was punished. I don't know how you missed that.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

It was not the punishment that had previously been applied which was a black flag. He received what we would call a Claytons punishment.

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Post by John » 2 years ago

I don't understand. What are we discussing here? Should Marquez have been suspended for the entire championship? No, hardly. Should he have been flat out DQ-ed in Argentina? Yes. That, and placed on a probation for whatever period of time would have been deemed suitable, when you combine what he did on the grid as well as bouncing off pretty much every damn rider on track that day.

Marquez claim that he was instructed by the on-track marshals to turn the bike around and return to his grid spot can't be ignored. If that's the case, the following ride-through penalty is hard enough. His claim was that he asked the marshal if he should return to the grid, or go to the pit lane. The marshal ordered him to re-take his grid spot. When the race started , he got a ride-through penalty for re-taking his grid spot/riding in the wrong direction.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

I think we are all saying he should at least have been DSQd. As per precedent dished out to others previously. That he was ever allowed to start was wrong. Whatever the Marshall might have said. The Marshall is after all probably a volunteer who may not be aware of the exact wording of the actual rules. That is DORNA/Race Control's function and purpose.

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Post by John » 2 years ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
2 years ago
I think we are all saying he should at least have been DSQd. As per precedent dished out to others previously. That he was ever allowed to start was wrong. Whatever the Marshall might have said. The Marshall is after all probably a volunteer who may not be aware of the exact wording of the actual rules. That is DORNA/Race Control's function and purpose.
And here I agree with you. That said, whatever's been done in the past, it would be easy for DORNA to clarify the rules to the teams and say "from here on now, we're going to do this, and that". It was a bad decision. Simple as that. It happens in every sport from time to time. Had he been DQ-ed, Rossi wouldn't have wound up in the gravel trap. Marquez wouldn't have any points anyway, since he got the 30 seconds time penalty for ramming Rossi off the track.

DORNA and the FIM needs to sit down and draw up a set of rules that's clear and easy to follow, for everyone involved. Marshals, race directors, teams and riders. The marshals needs to know at least a basic set of rules. I've tried to find the decision from the commission following the race and the decision to give MM a ride-through penalty, but I can't find it because FIMs website sucks.

At the end of the day, why the hell are we still arguing over this? It's ages ago.

EDIT: After consulting the rule-book, DORNA changed the rules after Argentina. Changes in bold, below.

Any rider who stalls his engine on the grid or who has other difficulties
must remain on the motorcycle and raise an arm. It is not permitted
to delay the start by any other means. Attempting to restart the
motorcycle on the grid is not permitted. Under the supervision or
assistance of an official the rider and machine will exit the grid
to the pit lane where mechanics may provide assistance or, in the
MotoGP class only, change machine.


So the rules are clarified, changed and updated. End of discussion, then.
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Post by John » 2 years ago

And as for riding in the wrong direction:
Riders must not ride their motorcycles in the opposite direction of the
circuit, either on the track or in the pit lane, unless doing so under the
direction of an Official.
Which he, apparently did (riding in the opposite direction under the direction of an official). So the ensuing ride-through can't possibly be for riding in the wrong direction. In fact, after studying the rule book, he can't possibly have been punished for this, and the ride-through can not have been for riding in the opposite direction, but rather for delaying the start procedure.
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Post by SB83 » 2 years ago

Explain me this. What's the difference between him being DSQ'd vs. the time penalty which relegated him to 18th place? In either situation, the outcome would've meant no points for him, so why the clamouring for a DSQ?

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Post by John » 2 years ago

SB83 wrote:
2 years ago
Explain me this. What's the difference between him being DSQ'd vs. the time penalty which relegated him to 18th place? In either situation, the outcome would've meant no points for him, so why the clamouring for a DSQ?
None whatsoever, other than DORNA setting a precedence for future reckless riding.
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Post by Andy » 2 years ago

There is.
DSQ basically means getting deleted from the results while a time penalty still keeps the culprit inside the results.
Given someone commits to something and just gets punished with a time penalty during the race, the culprit has to make up as much time as possible and still can get into points. Someone DSQ'ed can't
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