Nicky Hayden RIP

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DoubleFart
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Re: Nicky Hayden RIP

Post by DoubleFart » 2 years ago

Latest post of the previous page:

No cyclist runs a red light in the UK and gets away with it - we're the most hated people on the planet.

Cyclists are killed and seriously injured every day and the law ALWAYS protects the motorist in a 50/50 case. Cyclists are killed by people without licenses and it gets thrown out, they are killed by OAPs who can't judge an overtake and it's just a slap on the wrist. Can't see because the sun is in your eyes? Keep driving, doesn't matter if you run the cyclist over.

I'll enlighten you all after the court case next month as to what cyclists have to put up with in this country.
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Post by DoubleFart » 2 years ago

I'll also add, 5000 motorists drove through red lights and were caught in 2016.

That's only the ones who were caught.

Remind me again, doesn't insurance and a license stop this happening? It must do and that stat must be wrong because I'm always told that cyclists need a license and insurance as we go through red lights.

Talk to me about road tax and I'll shove my bike pump so far up your ass it'll be tickling your tonsils.
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Post by John » 2 years ago

Seeing as this is a topic I got plenty to say on, perhaps @kals can break it out of the original thread.

I see more car drivers than cyclists run red lights. An investigation by the Swedish Motoring Agency showed that over 90% of drivers break the law, knowingly, EVERY time they drive a car. And that goes from speeding, running red lights, ignoring stop signs to road rage and drunk driving. Over 90%. I doubt it's different elsewhere in Europe.

I stand with DoubleFart.
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Post by erwin greven » 2 years ago

In the Netherlands, cyclists are highly protected by law. If you hit a cyclist with a car: you are 100% at fault. BUT: if the cyclist runs through red, then it won't be protected. And many cyclists don't care at all about the traffic laws here.
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Post by Ian-S » 2 years ago

I had a whole collection of videos from my dashcam of cyclists thinking red lights, keep left signs and no entry signs don't apply to them, unfortunately I lost it in a hard drive crash, but it was a good five minutes in length, in the same filming period, there was about a minutes worth of idiocy from car drivers, so yes, car drivers are as guilty as cyclists in thinking some rules don't apply to them, just the percentage was far lower.

I have no problem with car drivers being prosecuted if they are at fault, but if you run a red light on a bike @DoubleFart and get hit by a car driver who is obeying the law, within the speed limit and has a green light, then you ain't getting no sympathy from me.
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Post by MonteCristo » 2 years ago

Cyclists are people.

Car drivers are people.

People are stupid.
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Post by DoubleFart » 2 years ago

Ian-S wrote:
2 years ago
I have no problem with car drivers being prosecuted if they are at fault, but if you run a red light on a bike @DoubleFart and get hit by a car driver who is obeying the law, within the speed limit and has a green light, then you ain't getting no sympathy from me.
That's fine because I'm not asking for it for myself or for any other cyclist.

Cyclists don't go through red lights, people on bikes go through reds.
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Post by Ian-S » 2 years ago

Isn't a person riding a bike a cyclist?
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

Ian-S wrote:
2 years ago
Isn't a person riding a bike a cyclist?
Depends if they are wearing lycra? :dunno:

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Post by DoubleFart » 2 years ago

Ian-S wrote:
2 years ago
Isn't a person riding a bike a cyclist?
No. People on bikes come on different forms.

Commuters are the ones going through red lights 99% of the time.

People on bikes ride something that cost £50-150 and don't really give a shot about helmets, rules of the road, filtering etc and give people who cycle as a hobby a bad name.

A cyclist is normally in a club, has insurance because they are a member of British cycling, obeys the rules and has a bike worth more than your car.
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Post by Ian-S » 2 years ago

So a cyclist is a person riding a bike then, you're distinction is like trying to section off uninsured drivers from insured drivers, both are drivers in the end.
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Post by John » 2 years ago

Ian-S wrote:
2 years ago
So a cyclist is a person riding a bike then, you're distinction is like trying to section off uninsured drivers from insured drivers, both are drivers in the end.
It's like driving a car, compared to just riding in a car. It makes more sense in Swedish, perhaps...

I hate the casual commuter as they make us all look bad. I see them every day, riding on military bikes from the 1960's, earphones plugged in, unable to turn their head to see oncoming traffic or take a hand off the bike to signal their intent before cutting across two lanes. They run red lights, refuse to wear a helmet and act in a dangerous manner not only to themselves but pedestrians as well. I don't consider them cyclists, even if they are in the eyes of the law and insurance companies.

Cyclist seems to be the ones causing grief to most drivers though. And I honestly don't get why. Most people I know don't go on training rides in Stockholm, but rather head out to the countryside and rural roads to do our training. And we *gasps* GOD FORBID RUNNING TWO WIDE AT TIMES. Forcing drivers to wait UP TO A FULL 10 SECONDS before overtaking us sometimes.

I can make a long list on the road rage I encounter each year if you're interested. Road rage I encounter by simply exercising. You'd be baffled at the lengths motorists would go to, just to show their displeasure. There's everything in there from spraying windshield cleaner liquid - to close passes - to ramming us into a ditch. There was a case in Sweden in 2016 where a driver overtook a gang of cyclists running two wide, pulling in just ahead of them, and slamming his brakes. Seven cyclists were hospitalized, IIRC, some with fractures, broken arms, legs, collarbones, and whatnot. At the scene of the accident the driver claimed he wanted to teach them a lesson. In the court room he claimed he had to stop for a cat crossing the road. He was acquitted of all charges at first but was thankfully sentenced later on for vehicular assault.

And these people he wanted to teach a lesson, they're fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, someone's husband or wife. Regular, law-abiding citizens. But in the eyes of motorists, they're a plague and it's up to them to uphold some sort of law and order in traffic. It sickens me. Then they casually go back to texting behind the wheel, checking Facebook while driving, and whatnot.

This isn't a European thing. I see similar reports coming from all over the world - England, the US, Australia (which seems to be a hell-hole).

Treat cyclists as they were your family.
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Post by Ian-S » 2 years ago

No driving in a car indicates you are in control of it, being in it is indicative of being a passenger and having no control over where the car goes, that is not a comparison you can make between a cyclist and a commuter, both are in control of the bike, neither is a passenger on it.

I don't disagree on the casual commuter being the most visual problem. It's just that I live at a junction on a road where even "cyclists" as you like to call them, ignore the rules just as much as casual commuters do, you see it's a t junction, and the cyclists come up our road and turn left at the t junction and go down the lane, they don't stop, they just ride out without a care in the world and holler abuse at any car driver that happens to be on the main road.

These are members of the local riding club, in fact the secretary of the club is among the worst offenders (and it's also perhaps why nothing is done by the club about it), it is only a matter of time before someone get's killed, and it'll be their own fault - these are the "cyclists" you refer to when you self-segregate yourself off in an effort to distance yourself from the poor riding standards of commuters. This is why I see no difference between a commuter and a keep fit enthusiast, both of you are riding a bike for a particular reason, so you are a cyclist.

So, just as there are car drivers who cause problems like the one you describe, you also called him a driver, which is indicative of you considering all car drivers to be drivers, you cannot section off a particular sub-section of cyclists and call them commuters, they are on a bike, riding it in town using it to get to work, you are on a bike, riding down a country lane to keep fit - both of you are cyclists, just like the moron who in the 2016 case was a car driver, same as I am a car driver, we both drive, just I am respectful to cyclists, he wasn't, but at the end of the day, we are both drivers, just the same as you are a cyclist on a Sunday morning, as Joe Public is every morning riding to work.
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Post by DoubleFart » 2 years ago

Drivers are people like you and me Ian.we understand how a car works, how to handle quickly round corners and how to anticipate all road situations well in advance of things happening, e.g. the lights have been green for ages so we know they're due to stop.

People travel in a car will slam the brakes last second as they don't anticipate. They don't LIKE driving, they just need it to get from a to b.

They're the idiots that see a cyclist, overtake them and then slam on the brakes because they didn't actually check to see if the road ahead was clear. They'll then go on to blame the cyclist for their error, not understanding it's up to them to make a safe overtake.

Had one of these a few weeks back - nearly drove into a parked car because he was so focused on getting past me asap that he didn't actually look where he would be going.
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Post by erwin greven » 2 years ago

DoubleFart wrote:
2 years ago
They're the idiots that see a cyclist, overtake them and then slam on the brakes because they didn't actually check to see if the road ahead was clear. They'll then go on to blame the cyclist for their error, not understanding it's up to them to make a safe overtake.
Yes, some drivers don't anticipate the situation after they pass a cyclist.

But every accident can be a separate incident.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 2 years ago

Are we wandering off the topic of Nicky Hayden here? :dunno:
Obviously there is relevance but we seem to be generalising about cycling / car driving etiquette. Maybe that is a topic in its own right for the Off Topic section? Just saying... :wink:

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