Nicky Hayden RIP

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Re: Nicky Hayden RIP

Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 week ago

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Suspended sentence for Hayden crash driver


The driver who fatally struck Nicky Hayden while the former MotoGP champion was cycling in Italy has been handed a one-year suspended prison sentence.

Hayden was found to be 30% to blame, for failing to stop at a stop sign, but the unamed driver was found to be largely to blame, mainly due to his exceeding the 50kph speed limit by more than 20kph. The driver was found guilty of road homicide.

Hayden had been cycling on the Rimini coast on May 17 last year when he was hit by a car, causing brain damage and ultimately his death five days later.

According to local news outlet Rimini Today and Italian sports newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport, the 31-year-old driver, who was not named, was found guilty of road homicide.

The trial took place under an abbreviated procedure, meaning that the sentence would already be reduced by one third.

Prosecutors had been seeking a term of one year and two months after an investigation that Hayden and the driver shared culpability for the crash.

In addition to the suspended prison sentence, the driver had his licence cancelled and was ordered to pay court costs.

The crash had been investigated by a pool of three experts, one each appointed by the prosecutor, defence, and a lawyer representing the Hayden family.

It found Hayden was riding at a speed of just over 20km/h when he failed to obey a stop sign, while the driver had been exceeding the 50km/h speed limit by more than 20km/h.

As such, Hayden was determined to be 30 percent at fault for the crash with the driver shouldering the remainder of the blame.

Furthermore, the prosecutor’s expert Orlando Omicini, a former police officer, claimed that if the driver been travelling at the speed limit then “by reacting and braking, the accident would have been avoided.”

The judge will reveal the reasons for his decision within 90 days.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/10/11/su ... sh-driver/
Hayden’s family is pursuing civil action against the driver.

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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

It should have been a 50/50 charge in all honesty. I fail to see how a bicyclist or any other road user disobeying a stop sign can be charged with less. The judge obviously rated the speeding higher than the disobeying of one of the most important traffic signs, while both misdemeanors are equally bad.
I could also puke when I read 'that the bicyclist was 'just over 20 km/h' while 'the driver had been exceeding the speed limit by more than...'. Even with 'travelling just over 20 km/h (whatever that is, anything from 20 to 25 I've to assume) is a speed of 5.5 meter per second (at 20 km/h) and if you disobey a stop sign even at that speed you are still travelling 11 meters in just two seconds which is almost the entire width of a smaller crossroad and with crossing over without watching this cries for worst case scenarios.
What is the 'more than 20 km/h ...' in case of the driver does mean ? 20-30 Km/h? If it was 30 km/h above we are speaking about 8.33 meter per second over a 13.88 meter/second limit. I'm eager to see the real values as well as the real distance measurements.
Lately, court cases went way too often towards the oh so poor bicyclist, while these oh so poor are often the biggest rowdys.
I'm sorry for the tragic loss of the Hayden family but right here it is enough since they now are trying to gain financially, too.
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Post by hollie3sa » 1 week ago

Andy wrote:
1 week ago
It should have been a 50/50 charge in all honesty. I fail to see how a bicyclist or any other road user disobeying a stop sign can be charged with less. [...]
Lately, court cases went way too often towards the oh so poor bicyclist[...]
There you have it.

I remember what my driving instructor told me many years ago. It was sth like: "When you're involved in an accident with a child, it doesn't matter if you were driving too fast or obeyed the traffic laws. You're always gonna be held partially at fault." I can only imagine this has more or less become the same with cyclists.

It's not entirely about whose fault it was. It's about who is the weaker/stronger traffic participant and who "deserves" protection.

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Post by John » 1 week ago

If I read an article somewhere correctly, the driver was given a larger portion of the blame as he would have been able to avoid the accident had he obeyed the speed limit.
Last edited by John on Thu Oct 11, 2018 14:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kals » 1 week ago

Yeah, it's a weird outcome.

Nicky failed to yield at a stop sign, driver was going 20kmh too fast. Driver gets 30% of the blame and yet is told the accident wouldn't have happened had he not been speeding. That is true and makes sense but is butterfly effects practicing of law if ever I've seen it.

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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

kals wrote:
1 week ago
Yeah, it's a weird outcome.

Nicky failed to yield at a stop sign, driver was going 20kmh too fast. Driver gets 30% of the blame and yet is told the accident wouldn't have happened had he not been speeding. That is true and makes sense but is butterfly effects practicing of law if ever I've seen it.
Hayden got the 30%, the driver the 70% ;)
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 week ago

At least he (the driver) only got a suspended sentence, so he just needs to be careful for a year. Obviously he still has the emotional aspects to live with and I dont know about costs incurred.

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Post by kals » 1 week ago

Andy wrote:
1 week ago
kals wrote:
1 week ago
Yeah, it's a weird outcome.

Nicky failed to yield at a stop sign, driver was going 20kmh too fast. Driver gets 30% of the blame and yet is told the accident wouldn't have happened had he not been speeding. That is true and makes sense but is butterfly effects practicing of law if ever I've seen it.
Hayden got the 30%, the driver the 70% ;)
Not according to this article..
The driver involved in 2006 MotoGP world champion Nicky Hayden's fatal cycling collision last year has been given a one-year suspended prison sentence.

The 31-year-old driver, who was not named throughout the trial, was liable to a one- or two-year jail sentence after being found guilty of road homicide.

But judge Vinicio Canatarini decided to lower the penalty, the reasons for which he will reveal in 90 days' time.

The driver has also had his driving licence withdrawn and will pay all court costs.

The court heard that Hayden, who was cycling, was struck by a Peugeot 206 at 70km/h on a road in Rimini with a 50km/h speed limit on May 17 last year.

The 35-year-old American died five days later in hospital.

An expert witness for the prosecution alleged the driver could have stopped and "entirely avoided the accident" if he was travelling 20km/h slower.

Defence lawyers argued that Hayden had failed to halt at a stop sign, and was cycling with ear buds in and listening to music.

An official accident report attributed 30% of blame to the car driver.

Evidence included CCTV from a nearby house that captured the fatal collision.

Hayden's family was not present at the criminal trial, but has launched its own civil action against the driver.

Hayden was racing in the World Superbike Championship with the Ten Kate Honda team at the time of his death.

He had left MotoGP at the end of the 2015 season, though he made two appearances as a stand-in rider the following year - including a one-off return to the factory Honda team with which he had won his title.
https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/1 ... -sentenced

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Post by Ian-S » 1 week ago

As others have said, the report could have put 100% of the blame on Hayden but if the Judge wanted to rule 70% of the blame was the drivers, he could. Judges can literally rewrite history at their whim and express opinion as fact if they don't like what they hear.

I hate the term "expert witness" too, no they are not an expert, it's their opinion that is either based in fact, or just simple biasness, witnesses are among the worst and most unreliable ways of trying to establish facts of events.

My niece is having driving lessons now, first thing her instructor said was, if you hit a kid, you are at fault, if you hit a cyclist, you are at fault, when she said what about if they crash into me, he said, you are still at fault in the court of public opinion, always keep that at the forefront of your mind, and if possible, do as much as you can to avoid hitting a kid or cyclist, even if that means you crash yourself.

What a sad fucked up world we live in. I'm not saying Hayden deserved it, but sometimes people just make mistakes and pay the price for it, the guy who hit him doesn't need jailing, if he is anything of a half decent human being, the memory of what happened will be punishment enough.

We had something similar in town a few years ago, an army chap got drunk, fell in the road and got run over and killed. The person that hit him didn't stop, because they didn't realise they had hit a body laying half in the road, half on the path, our roads are so bad they thought they'd hit a pot hole, but when it became clear what happened the next day, they turned themselves in. They were prosecuted and because, in the opinion of witnesses they were speeding, they were convicted and jailed for I think 3 years and the army guy is always hailed as the victim.

You probably all know what I think to that too lol
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 week ago

At this stage I only see the figure of 30% driver blame being attributed in Autosport related media, ie Motorsport, Eurosport yahoo and others.

Other reports differ:
According to regional newspapers and websites, including RiminiToday.it, deputy prosecutor Paolo Gengarelli has received a report from a forensic accident investigator, Orlando Omicini, who was hired by the procurer’s office.

Omicini previously had a 30-year career investigating traffic accidents with the Polizia Stradale – Italy’s Highway Patrol. He based his report on the driver’s statement, eyewitness accounts of nearby road maintenance workers, the extensive documentation of the scene by police and, critically, video of the accident recorded by a nearby security camera. The expert’s findings have partially reversed earlier suggestions that the accident was mostly or entirely Hayden’s fault.

On May 17, the racer was out for a training ride on his Specialized bicycle, leaving the area of the Misano circuit on a narrow road called Via Ca’ Rafaelli. He was struck by a Peugot 206 car immediately after entering the two-lane Strada Provinciale 35, known locally as via Tavoleto.

Omicini concluded that the Peugot 206 car was traveling at almost 73 kilometers an hour (45 mph) on a road with a 50 kmh limit. There was no evidence that the driver applied the brakes prior to hitting Hayden. The impact shattered the frame of the bicycle; Hayden hit the right side of the windshield and was tossed more than 15 feet upwards.

The consultant’s report assigned 70 percent of the blame to the speeding car driver, and 30 percent of the blame to Hayden himself, because Nicky failed to observe the stop signs at the tricky, blind intersection.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/i ... yden-crash
The case has been under investigation by the local prosecutor, and the findings of the has been made public.

The investigation took account statements from the driver, eyewitnesses, and CCTV footage. Fault had been apportioned both parties, which meant both Nicky and the car driver were at fault. 70% of the blame went to the driver, for excessive speeding, and 30% to Nicky Hayden, for failing to stop fully at the intersection’s stop sign.
http://www.bikesrepublic.com/wp-content ... 1000_a.jpg

One proviso I will add is that these articles are based on the initial prosecution reports issued 12 months ago.
The official report on the findings and penalty will not be issued for another few months.

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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
1 week ago
At this stage I only see the figure of 30% driver blame being attributed in Autosport related media, ie Motorsport, Eurosport yahoo and others.

Other reports differ:
According to regional newspapers and websites, including RiminiToday.it, deputy prosecutor Paolo Gengarelli has received a report from a forensic accident investigator, Orlando Omicini, who was hired by the procurer’s office.

Omicini previously had a 30-year career investigating traffic accidents with the Polizia Stradale – Italy’s Highway Patrol. He based his report on the driver’s statement, eyewitness accounts of nearby road maintenance workers, the extensive documentation of the scene by police and, critically, video of the accident recorded by a nearby security camera. The expert’s findings have partially reversed earlier suggestions that the accident was mostly or entirely Hayden’s fault.

On May 17, the racer was out for a training ride on his Specialized bicycle, leaving the area of the Misano circuit on a narrow road called Via Ca’ Rafaelli. He was struck by a Peugot 206 car immediately after entering the two-lane Strada Provinciale 35, known locally as via Tavoleto.

Omicini concluded that the Peugot 206 car was traveling at almost 73 kilometers an hour (45 mph) on a road with a 50 kmh limit. There was no evidence that the driver applied the brakes prior to hitting Hayden. The impact shattered the frame of the bicycle; Hayden hit the right side of the windshield and was tossed more than 15 feet upwards.

The consultant’s report assigned 70 percent of the blame to the speeding car driver, and 30 percent of the blame to Hayden himself, because Nicky failed to observe the stop signs at the tricky, blind intersection
I find it highly annoying how each of this report samples kind of minimise Haydens part of the incident by using verbs and expressions such as disobeying, failing to stop, failing to observe a stop sign, had failed to halt, tricky & blind intersection etc ... when and in fact he plain and simply ignored the stop sign.
Riding lesson 1 on a motorcycle (another, yet faster bicycle) : Stop sign - Stop at the signs road marker, put a foot down and only then continue slowly foward into the intersection and look left & right. In fact, this was the same when I was in basic school and we were trained to use the bicycle to school in year two. Stop means stop, however blind or tricky the intersection is.
Ian-S wrote: My niece is having driving lessons now, first thing her instructor said was, if you hit a kid, you are at fault, if you hit a cyclist, you are at fault, when she said what about if they crash into me, he said, you are still at fault in the court of public opinion, always keep that at the forefront of your mind, and if possible, do as much as you can to avoid hitting a kid or cyclist, even if that means you crash yourself.
I'd add not just kids but walking people, as well. True, they are formally 'weaker' traffic participants but if they don't play along the rules, there should be the same judgemental scales at least.
Just the other day, my dad very nearly crashed into the rear of the car in front, which had to slam anchors for a bicyclist ignoring red ample lights and crossing over. Of course, my dad would have got full blame for crashing but the bicyclist wouldn't even got a fine because he ignored it all and continued.
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Post by John » 1 week ago

Andy wrote:
1 week ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
1 week ago
At this stage I only see the figure of 30% driver blame being attributed in Autosport related media, ie Motorsport, Eurosport yahoo and others.

Other reports differ:
According to regional newspapers and websites, including RiminiToday.it, deputy prosecutor Paolo Gengarelli has received a report from a forensic accident investigator, Orlando Omicini, who was hired by the procurer’s office.

Omicini previously had a 30-year career investigating traffic accidents with the Polizia Stradale – Italy’s Highway Patrol. He based his report on the driver’s statement, eyewitness accounts of nearby road maintenance workers, the extensive documentation of the scene by police and, critically, video of the accident recorded by a nearby security camera. The expert’s findings have partially reversed earlier suggestions that the accident was mostly or entirely Hayden’s fault.

On May 17, the racer was out for a training ride on his Specialized bicycle, leaving the area of the Misano circuit on a narrow road called Via Ca’ Rafaelli. He was struck by a Peugot 206 car immediately after entering the two-lane Strada Provinciale 35, known locally as via Tavoleto.

Omicini concluded that the Peugot 206 car was traveling at almost 73 kilometers an hour (45 mph) on a road with a 50 kmh limit. There was no evidence that the driver applied the brakes prior to hitting Hayden. The impact shattered the frame of the bicycle; Hayden hit the right side of the windshield and was tossed more than 15 feet upwards.

The consultant’s report assigned 70 percent of the blame to the speeding car driver, and 30 percent of the blame to Hayden himself, because Nicky failed to observe the stop signs at the tricky, blind intersection
I find it highly annoying how each of this report samples kind of minimise Haydens part of the incident by using verbs and expressions such as disobeying, failing to stop, failing to observe a stop sign, had failed to halt, tricky & blind intersection etc ... when and in fact he plain and simply ignored the stop sign.
Riding lesson 1 on a motorcycle (another, yet faster bicycle) : Stop sign - Stop at the signs road marker, put a foot down and only then continue slowly foward into the intersection and look left & right. In fact, this was the same when I was in basic school and we were trained to use the bicycle to school in year two. Stop means stop, however blind or tricky the intersection is.
Ian-S wrote: My niece is having driving lessons now, first thing her instructor said was, if you hit a kid, you are at fault, if you hit a cyclist, you are at fault, when she said what about if they crash into me, he said, you are still at fault in the court of public opinion, always keep that at the forefront of your mind, and if possible, do as much as you can to avoid hitting a kid or cyclist, even if that means you crash yourself.
I'd add not just kids but walking people, as well. True, they are formally 'weaker' traffic participants but if they don't play along the rules, there should be the same judgemental scales at least.
Just the other day, my dad very nearly crashed into the rear of the car in front, which had to slam anchors for a bicyclist ignoring red ample lights and crossing over. Of course, my dad would have got full blame for crashing but the bicyclist wouldn't even got a fine because he ignored it all and continued.
I don't know if the law in Germany is different from the ones in Sweden, but if you cause an accident between two other cars because YOU ran a red light, YOU get the blame. That is, if they can identify you.

For instance, pedestrians. The law says that cars have to let pedestrians pass at zebra crossings, but if the pedestrian just jumps out onto the zebra crossing without checking both ways first, causing a car to slam the brakes and gets hit from behind, the pedestrian gets the blame.

But I digress. Follow the rules, kids.
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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

John wrote:
1 week ago
Andy wrote:
1 week ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
1 week ago
At this stage I only see the figure of 30% driver blame being attributed in Autosport related media, ie Motorsport, Eurosport yahoo and others.

Other reports differ:
According to regional newspapers and websites, including RiminiToday.it, deputy prosecutor Paolo Gengarelli has received a report from a forensic accident investigator, Orlando Omicini, who was hired by the procurer’s office.

Omicini previously had a 30-year career investigating traffic accidents with the Polizia Stradale – Italy’s Highway Patrol. He based his report on the driver’s statement, eyewitness accounts of nearby road maintenance workers, the extensive documentation of the scene by police and, critically, video of the accident recorded by a nearby security camera. The expert’s findings have partially reversed earlier suggestions that the accident was mostly or entirely Hayden’s fault.

On May 17, the racer was out for a training ride on his Specialized bicycle, leaving the area of the Misano circuit on a narrow road called Via Ca’ Rafaelli. He was struck by a Peugot 206 car immediately after entering the two-lane Strada Provinciale 35, known locally as via Tavoleto.

Omicini concluded that the Peugot 206 car was traveling at almost 73 kilometers an hour (45 mph) on a road with a 50 kmh limit. There was no evidence that the driver applied the brakes prior to hitting Hayden. The impact shattered the frame of the bicycle; Hayden hit the right side of the windshield and was tossed more than 15 feet upwards.

The consultant’s report assigned 70 percent of the blame to the speeding car driver, and 30 percent of the blame to Hayden himself, because Nicky failed to observe the stop signs at the tricky, blind intersection
I find it highly annoying how each of this report samples kind of minimise Haydens part of the incident by using verbs and expressions such as disobeying, failing to stop, failing to observe a stop sign, had failed to halt, tricky & blind intersection etc ... when and in fact he plain and simply ignored the stop sign.
Riding lesson 1 on a motorcycle (another, yet faster bicycle) : Stop sign - Stop at the signs road marker, put a foot down and only then continue slowly foward into the intersection and look left & right. In fact, this was the same when I was in basic school and we were trained to use the bicycle to school in year two. Stop means stop, however blind or tricky the intersection is.
Ian-S wrote: My niece is having driving lessons now, first thing her instructor said was, if you hit a kid, you are at fault, if you hit a cyclist, you are at fault, when she said what about if they crash into me, he said, you are still at fault in the court of public opinion, always keep that at the forefront of your mind, and if possible, do as much as you can to avoid hitting a kid or cyclist, even if that means you crash yourself.
I'd add not just kids but walking people, as well. True, they are formally 'weaker' traffic participants but if they don't play along the rules, there should be the same judgemental scales at least.
Just the other day, my dad very nearly crashed into the rear of the car in front, which had to slam anchors for a bicyclist ignoring red ample lights and crossing over. Of course, my dad would have got full blame for crashing but the bicyclist wouldn't even got a fine because he ignored it all and continued.
I don't know if the law in Germany is different from the ones in Sweden, but if you cause an accident between two other cars because YOU ran a red light, YOU get the blame. That is, if they can identify you.

For instance, pedestrians. The law says that cars have to let pedestrians pass at zebra crossings, but if the pedestrian just jumps out onto the zebra crossing without checking both ways first, causing a car to slam the brakes and gets hit from behind, the pedestrian gets the blame.

But I digress. Follow the rules, kids.
Over here, you'll get a light fine if caught running a red light as a pedestrian or bicyclist. If you cause a collision in doing so, you get a 30% part of blame. Do it on a car or motorcycle and you get suspended from your driving license for four weeks including a bigger fine.
Quite similar to bicyclists behaviour on zebra crossings. A bicyclist has to get off his bike and push it to cross a zebra crossing and has to check both ways as well. Yet, if you run over a bicyclist crossing a zebra crossing who isn't pushing and who most likely started to cross when it was way too late he'll still gets away with just 30% of the blame, if any.
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Post by Ian-S » 1 week ago

Crazy, if a car ran a red light and caused an accident, they'd get 100% of the blame, not 30%.

I know there is a resistant to "victim blame", but the lengths some go to to avoid apportioning the blame where it's due is boarding on insanity nowdays, perhaps instead of suing the car driver for millions they won't get (unless he is a multi-millionaire, they'll never get anything because his insurers will refuse to pay out since the "expert witness" said he was speeding) they should just come out and say "as upsetting as it may be, Nicki was to blame for the accident for ignoring the stop sign, so please take this as a lesson that the rules of the road apply to you regardless of what transport method you are utilising".

But they won't, all they're doing is sending a message, "hey you can ignore stop signs and red lights when on a bike, and claim compensation when you get run over" to the great unwashed eco loving obsessed cyclists whose ego will never allow them to know any different.
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Post by Andy » 1 week ago

Ian-S wrote:
1 week ago
Crazy, if a car ran a red light and caused an accident, they'd get 100% of the blame, not 30%.

I know there is a resistant to "victim blame", but the lengths some go to to avoid apportioning the blame where it's due is boarding on insanity nowdays, perhaps instead of suing the car driver for millions they won't get (unless he is a multi-millionaire, they'll never get anything because his insurers will refuse to pay out since the "expert witness" said he was speeding) they should just come out and say "as upsetting as it may be, Nicki was to blame for the accident for ignoring the stop sign, so please take this as a lesson that the rules of the road apply to you regardless of what transport method you are utilising".

But they won't, all they're doing is sending a message, "hey you can ignore stop signs and red lights when on a bike, and claim compensation when you get run over" to the great unwashed eco loving obsessed cyclists whose ego will never allow them to know any different.
^^This^^ Spot on, mate ! :thumbsup:
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Post by DoubleFart » 1 week ago

No cyclist runs a red light in the UK and gets away with it - we're the most hated people on the planet.

Cyclists are killed and seriously injured every day and the law ALWAYS protects the motorist in a 50/50 case. Cyclists are killed by people without licenses and it gets thrown out, they are killed by OAPs who can't judge an overtake and it's just a slap on the wrist. Can't see because the sun is in your eyes? Keep driving, doesn't matter if you run the cyclist over.

I'll enlighten you all after the court case next month as to what cyclists have to put up with in this country.

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