[MotoGP/WSBK/AMA] 2011 Season - RIP Super Sic

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Everso Biggyballies
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#481

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Germany is not the Nation that one thinks of as one of the great nations of Motorcycle racing, not from a riders point of view anyway. Actually, I think that Bradl has become I think only the 7th German to take out a Motorcycle World title of any engine size/class..

The first ever German Motorcycle Champion was Werner Haas, who won both the 125cc and 250cc Titles in 1953, and the 1954 250cc title. He was to die in a light plane crash in Germany 2 years later.

German Motorcycle World Title Holders:

Werner Haas - 1950's: 3 titles (2x250cc, 1x125cc)
Ernst Degner - 1962: 1 title (50cc) *
Hans Georg Anscheidt(1966-68) : 3 titles (all 50cc)
Dieter Braun (1970-73): 2 titles (1 each 125cc & 250cc)
Anton Mang - 1980's: 5 titles (2x350cc, 3x250cc)
Dirk Raudies - 1993 1 title (125cc)

Plus of course Bradl at Moto2 level this year

As has been pointed out, no German has ever won a 500cc (or big class) Championship. All German ridden titles have been in the secondary or intermediate and smaller engine classes. (ie. 350cc, 250cc, 125cc and 50cc)

In fact, although only the 'intermediate' category of the MotoGP set up now, at 600cc for the current Moto2 over the previous 250 and 350cc, Bradl has become the German to have won the largest engine size for any German to date.

Anton Mang previously held that (German rider to win largest engine size title) honour of the Champion in the , having won two of the old 350cc class titles. Mang did win both the 250cc and 350cc titles in 1981. He also won the 350cc title in 1982, making him the last ever 350cc World Champion. (1982 was the final year of the 350cc class.)


* East German Ernst Degner 'coulda shoulda woulda' won the 1961 world 125cc title on an MZ, but put his family first when he smuggled them out of the GDR in 'the boot' of a car, as he was bound for the Swedish GP. He suffered an engine failure in the race, but was able to defect immediately after the race. The 'East' Germany based MZ then accused him of deliberately blowing the engine up (despite the fact he stood to win the world title) as part of his plan and had his racing licence suspended, throwing a spanner in his plan to ride a borrowed bike in the final 125cc World Championship round in Argentina to a hopeful 125cc World Championship Title win. (He was I think leading the title by 6 points prior to the Argentina race Degner's DNS in Argentina gave an opportunity for Australian Tom Phillis, (6 points behind Degner prior to the final race) to win the title. Phillis indeed won the Argentina race, scoring 8 points..... enabling him to take the 1961 125cc title by just 2 points.

So Degner, fired from MZ over his defection, joined Suzuki pretty well immediately, moved to Japan, designed their 1962 engines, utilising his MZ 2 stroke knowledge, and in 1962 rode the 50cc Szuki to win his (and Suzuki's first ever) World Title.

He is also the Degner that gave the name to the famed Degner Curves at Suzuka, following his crash there on a Suzuki 250cc at the following year's Japanese GP. The fuel tank ignited in the crash, leaving Degner so badly burnt that he had more than 50 skin graft operations. Although he did ride again briefly that accident was in effect a career ender.

Phillis was, sadly, to be killed on the IoM in 1962. (Ironically Gary Hocking, 1961 350cc & 500cc World title winner on an MV, and best friend of Phillis, was so badly affected by his mate's death, that he retired from motorcycle racing immediately due to the dangers of bike racing.

Hocking had decided to go car racing, which he believed to be safer, ..... sadly Hocking was killed the same year, 1962, in practice for what was to be his first ever car GP, his local South African GP.

Oops, I am wandering off topic.....

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


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#482

Post by Andy »

WOW Chris ! That's an essay. Thanks for writing it up :thumbsup:

Meanwhile roadracer Michael Dunlop seemingly aims for a TT victory on a sidecar. Partnered with 'Klaffi' Klaffenböcks last passenger Dan Sayle, Michael Dunlop is going for a season on two and three wheels.
More of the exciting news at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/15678532.stm
Last edited by Andy 12 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Everso Biggyballies
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#483

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

No worries.

Shame I just noticed I somehow missed a German Champion in my little 'essay'.... not only a Champion but also perhaps the nearest person to, or the one to have almost matched John Surtees in winning World Championships on 2 & 4 wheels. So here, to put it right, is a bit re my accidental omission in my previous post. :wink:

Paul "Renntiger" Müller is the rider I refer to. Rather strangely we have had many Motorcycle guys move on to cars, from Rosemeyer, Surtees, Hailwood, Agostini, Sheene, Gardner, Cecotto, Gary Hocking (as mentioned in my previous post) even Damon Hill plus many more...... all went on to professional car racing careers following motor cycle racing.

Paul Müller however went from Grand Prix Car Racing, indeed, a Grand Prix winner and became a World Champion motorcyclist after that. (He had earlier started on bikes, it has to be said). I believe his (lack of) fame in terms of the overall Racing Greats is perhaps less than he deserved when one looks at his career a little closer.

The War interrupted Müller's career badly, having become the Auto Union team leader following Rosemeyer's death in 1938..... Müller drove for Auto Union (Audi), alongside Rosemeyer, whom he had also partnered in Motorbikes, when Müller had won the German Motorbike title (on a DKW?) earlier in the 1930's.

Müller was also (as mentioned) a pre WW2 Car Championship GP winner, in fact lost out on a likely European (Car) Grand Prix Championship thanks to the War.... leading the Championship on points when war was decalared in 1939, and caused the still unrun championship races be cancelled. Remember that the World Championship did not exist in car racing then, and the European Championship was the unofficial pinnacle. The first World Championships were in effect the European Championship with the Indy 500 tacked on to give it some cred (and a circuit outside of Europe). Anyway I digress. Suffice to say Müller was very much at the top level of car racing.

When the remaining races of the 1939 Championship were cancelled the points scored up to that time were totally overlooked and ignored. The European Champion title was given to Hermann Lang (Mercedes) in a Bernie E like political move that had the title given to Lang, based on more race wins than Müller, overlooking the points standings totally.

Post WW2, Müller had to start again, returning to Motorbikes, winning 7 German Titles (covering every class). I think he raced with NSU at that time. Following the withdrawl of NSU from the World Championships at the end of 1954, after the death of Rupert Hollaus, for 1955 Müller entered the 250cc class as a Privateer (on an NSU) and indeed that year he became the first ever Privateer to win a World Motorcycle Championship Title. He was by then approaching 50 years of age, and this led to him deciding to retire from the circuits.

But he did not altogether retire from motorbikes. After retiring from Championship racing at his peak, Müller then went on in 1956 to be asked by NSU for him to be involved in a campaign of World Record attempts on the Utah Salt Lakes..... he agreed to the challenge, and set a remarkable range of 38 new world records!

So, in summary, thanks to WW2 Müller lost out on a European Grand Prix Championship win (the forerunner of todays F1 WDC and WCC Championships) due to a political decision that saw the Mercedes of Lang, despite having scored fewer championship points, given the European title win over the leading on points Auto Union driving Paul Müller, to me the rightful and moral title winner that year. Müller was however classified as runner up in the title. :wink:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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#484

Post by Andy »

WOW again :thumbsup:
I think you are referring to HP (Hermann-Paul) Müller , who together with Werner Haas and Hans Baltisberger, formed the highly successful NSU trio of the early 50s
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Everso Biggyballies
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#485

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Andy wrote:WOW again :thumbsup:
I think you are referring to HP (Hermann-Paul) Müller , who together with Werner Haas and Hans Baltisberger, formed the highly successful NSU trio of the early 50s
Indeed I am. Sorry about omitting the Hermann and just calling him Paul. :oops: Not doing too well with him, having left him off the initial list of champions, and then even then missing part of his name. At least I said nice things about him. :tongue: :wink:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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#486

Post by kals »

Ant West will be back in MotoGP in 2012 aboard a CRT bike run by Speed Master.
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#487

Post by DoubleFault »

#65 has been retired, and Loris is going to be an advisor to Moto GP. Nice to see him still around the sport.
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#488

Post by ReneLotus »

How many numbers have been retired in MotoGP?

Anyway, nice to have Loris hang around. He is such a smiley personality.
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Everso Biggyballies
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#489

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

ReneLotus wrote:How many numbers have been retired in MotoGP?

Anyway, nice to have Loris hang around. He is such a smiley personality.
Not sure of the retired numbers, and I think it has not really been a practice in past years or tragedies for a rider to have this honour bestowed on them. (to my knowledge but happy to be corrected.) There have not been a huge number of those that always used the same number that I remember, or even noticed, other than Sheene #7, Schwantz was #34 IIRC, plus of the current crop Rossi #46, Stoner #27, Hayden #69, not forgetting of course the #58. Most of the other riders use the championship position from the previous year would be my thinking. Dont they? :dunno:

One thing I just realised is that Loris did 328 races AFAIK.

Rubens Barrichello, who many believe to be about to start his last F1 GP in the year's last GP in Brasil next weekend, will have been entered in 326 GP's over his career. To be exact he will have actually started 323 GPs thanks to 3 no starts in his career. The DNS's were one at Imola in 1994 where he had the terrible accident on the Friday that started that weekend off badly, and then it got steadily worse as the weekend wore on, plus he failed to start both Spain and France in 2002. Both of those became a DNS when his Ferrari had gremlins (electrical I think) with the car failing to get round the formation lap. :roll:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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#490

Post by Andy »

Just one day to go and the hunt through the streets of Macau kicks off again. I am already all excited about the next edition of the motorcycle GP . Not only for the motorcycles but the F3 GP and the TC trophy too
Just hope that I'll be able to make one of the full day chinese live streams work so that I can enjoy the action better than just through the 3 language (English, Portoguese,Mandarin) circuit radio broadcast. Works much like TT Radio during the IoM TT races.
Early get ups are guarranteed as all sessions start from around 0100 cet/0000 utc.
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Everso Biggyballies
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#491

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Andy wrote: Early get ups are guarranteed as all sessions start from around 0100 cet/0000 utc.
.... which is a leisurely 10:00 am for me. :tongue: :wink: Plus we get some coverage on TV perhaps even live for some of it.

I love this whole weekend, whether it's bikes, touring cars or the F3 etc. Like Monaco, I guess it has that same classic event and venue aura to it, with enormous history and even larger legends. The bikes though are just out of this world and the racing is always great. I have seen a great special TV doco on the Bikes there, with fly on the wall access to teams and riders in the week leading up to and including the race. They also had some footage of the riders doing a promo for the event, riding motor bikes around the outside of the Telecom (?) tower viewing platform on what I remember to be about a 2 ft wide maintenance walkway, literally hundreds of feet in the air. The actual circuit is stunning also. Like a Monaco, but with long straights and what should be reasonable overtaking opportunities, along with skin your knuckles tight hairpins. good elevation, swooping blind bends..... and no Tilke-like huge run off areas, just solid bricks walls and barriers.

Mmmmmm. What more can any motor racing fan want?



Live TV Coverage of all sessions and categories would be a good start to 'what more any fan could want.' :haha:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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#492

Post by Andy »

:haha:

There is a great picture of John McGuinness scratching down the armco with his elbow. Just can't find it now :shock:

edit: Chris Peris with a better one actually. Nutters :p

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#493

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Here is a goodie to get you in the mood..... a half hour programme of the bikes at Macau, back in 1997, with plenty of background stuff (like the Bike Grid v F3 Grid boatrace in the harbour) and plenty of fun things, lots of rider chats and stuff, plus of course the racing. Quality is excellent for youtube too. .

Macau Grand Prix: Macau Bike GP 1997


* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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#494

Post by Andy »

ooohhh thanks :thumbsup:
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#495

Post by kals »

Andy wrote:ooohhh thanks :thumbsup:
:agreepost: :agreepost:
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#496

Post by Sam »

Still can't get my head around the concept of bikes around Macau. It's insane...

BTW, what time is the Grand Prix on sunday? Is it before the touring car races or after them?
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