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Motorsport Memorial updates

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Sedre
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Re: Motorsport Memorial updates

Post by Sedre » 3 months ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Michael Ferner wrote:
3 months ago
Okay, a bit of googling reveals this mmorg file: http://motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=8079, so Komei Otake it could be, although I see that mostly spelled 孝明 (as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koumei_Nakamura or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dmei). Japanese personal names can be somewhat idiosyncratic, however.
Yes, I'm trying to find the correct spelling of this co-driver's name as I want to correct his page on Motorsport Memorial.

It's either Koumei Ootake or Ootake Atsuaki or something like that.

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Post by Michael Ferner » 3 months ago

Yes, Atsuaki is a possibilty; it's almost a "literal" version of 厚明 (although you can't say that with kanji, of course). But don't spell the last name Ootake because that's pronounced differently. It's either Otake, Outake or Ohtake.
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Post by Michael Ferner » 3 months ago

Winning isn't everything, but it's somewhat better than finishing second! -- Bruce McLaren

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Post by Motorsportrace » 3 months ago

Motorsportrace wrote:
2 years ago
On Motorsportmemorial, there's some confusion about some of the victims' surnames:
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/query ... 23,194,952

I've found a list on the Corriere Della Sera archive, which should clarify some doubts:

Image

So, according to this list, the victims were:
Mario Beltrami (Motorsportmemorial.org says his second name was Valentino);
Ercole Biroli (Motorsportmemorial.org says his surname could've also been Birolo);
Mauro Broletti;
Giovanni Brusati (he was reported to be seriously injured);
Ida Cavoli;
Teresina Erlich (could also be Elrich, and she was married to a man named Merlini);
Enrico Filotti (Motorsportmemorial.org says his surname could've also been Facolli, but that surname might not even exist);
Francesco Villani (Motorsportmemorial.org says he was erroneously identified as Villani, and that his surname was Ferrari; But the Corriere Della Sera, in a later article, names him Villani again);
Mario Galbiati (Motorsportmemorial.org says his surname could've also been Galbioli);
Giovanni Lenti;
? Michelini (his name is still unknown, and the article says "unidentified");
Giuseppe Mona;
Felice Nava (Motorsportmemorial.org says his surname could've also been Nara);
Luigi Nessi;
Mario Nessi;
Mario Nobile;
Antonio Ormanoglou (Motorsportmemorial.org says he was Greek, and his surname was reported as Omenognu/Orsingher/Obergout/Hobergant, without a name, but the Corriere article says he was the son of Giorgio and lived in Milan, so probably he was Italian);
Luigi Perego (reported as being seriously injured);
Aldo Pestalozzi (his surname is written as Pestalozza, but, in later articles, it was written as Pestalozzi several times);
Mario Emilio Sioli (Motorsportmemorial.org says his surname could've also been Scioli);
Giovanni Vaccari;
Luigi Zanoni.
Some new information could be added to Motorsportmemorial.org.
Motorsportmemorial.org now has a very detailed list of the names, including those which are still in doubt:
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... =ct&n=1842
Motorsportmemorial.org wrote:To date, the names of these individuals have been confirmed by independent recent second sources and are therefore to be considered reliable:
Mauro Broletti
Mario Nessi
Luigi Nessi
Luigi Zanoni
Felice Nava
Luigi Perego
Mario Nobili
Mario Galbiati
Giovanni Brusati
Ida Cavoli
Francesco Villani

The sources of the time agree on the names of these individuals, but it has not been possible to confirm them with recent sources:
Giuseppe Mona (some sources state that he was from Milano, others from Varese)
Giovanni Lenti
Giovanni Vaccari
Mario Beltrami (one source had his middle name, Valentino)

For these others, uncertainty still exists due to the discrepancies in the original sources:
Aldo Pestalozzi or Pestalozza
Ercole Biroli or Birolo
Emilio Sioli or Scioli
Enrico Filotti or Facolli
Teresia or Teresina Merlino née Ehrlich, Erlich, Elrich or Erlici or Elrici
Antonio Ormanoglou or Ormanoglu or Omenognu or Orsingher or Obergout or Habergant
Michele Cardarelli or ? Michelini
They've done an incredible job.
Motorsportrace

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Post by Sedre » 2 months ago

@hollie3sa

I found a very obscure case. A German man named Robert, who seems to be from Simmelsdorf, was fatally injured at a rally in Hungary on 14.04.2012. Nothing except this Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/maike.specht.3 ... 9342384869

And this site:
https://www.kerze-anzuenden.de/Kerzen/Robert-49874.html

E-WRC results mention this rally to be held on 14.04.2012 in Hungary, but no entry list or results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/5997 ... kupa-2012/

Maybe you can find something else.

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Post by hollie3sa » 2 months ago

Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa

I found a very obscure case. A German man named Robert, who seems to be from Simmelsdorf, was fatally injured at a rally in Hungary on 14.04.2012. Nothing except this Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/maike.specht.3 ... 9342384869

And this site:
https://www.kerze-anzuenden.de/Kerzen/Robert-49874.html

E-WRC results mention this rally to be held on 14.04.2012 in Hungary, but no entry list or results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/5997 ... kupa-2012/

Maybe you can find something else.
No solution but found the following file with a list of Hungarian rallying events being held in 2012. A total of 4 match the date of his death.

https://mnasz.hu/uploads/documents/82/a ... l_jav1.pdf

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Post by Sedre » 2 months ago

@hollie3sa, once again, I need your French language skills.

Here is audio from INA Archives about the 1983 Rallye Franche-Comte. In the first minute there are notes about an accident which took the lives of Felix Seigeot and Danielle Bevilacqua. I believe that they were driver and co-driver respectively and from what I understood following the accident the last special stage was cancelled.
I searched for these cases for several years so your help will be greatly appreciated.

https://mega.nz/file/WTBxhKgL#RdF-HC-5- ... Xc2LBUrORU

If the sound is bad, I'll send a link to mattia2 for download and then he'll add it there.

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Post by hollie3sa » 2 months ago

Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa, once again, I need your French language skills.

Here is audio from INA Archives about the 1983 Rallye Franche-Comte. In the first minute there are notes about an accident which took the lives of Felix Seigeot and Danielle Bevilacqua. I believe that they were driver and co-driver respectively and from what I understood following the accident the last special stage was cancelled.
I searched for these cases for several years so your help will be greatly appreciated.

https://mega.nz/file/WTBxhKgL#RdF-HC-5- ... Xc2LBUrORU

If the sound is bad, I'll send a link to mattia2 for download and then he'll add it there.
Sports automobiles

Le 3ème rally de Franch-Comté a été endeuillé Samedi peut avant 20 heures par un accident qui a couté la vie à deux jeunes gens du pays de Montbéliard qui participaient à la course. Dans la 3ème spéciale de Servance, alors que l'épreuve touchait à sa fin, le conducteur d'une vingt-cinq (25) Turbo, Felix Seigeot et son coéquipier Daniel Bevilacqua, sont sortis de la route après avoir ??? une barrière de securité et se sont écrasés dans le ravin sur la route menant du Ballon des Servances au Col des Croix.

Bien sûr ??? reste, sont les risques du métier mais la mort de deux jeunes gents de 20 ans a toujours un côté cruel qui révolte notre conscience.
Après le start des résultats paresse bien (??? - unsure about that part) derrière soir pourtant depuis de la tristesse générale. Notre mission nous oblige à vous tenir informé du l'??? de l'épreuve qu'hier la course continue

La dernière spéciale a été évidemment annullé. Après le départ de Trévenans le cœur du rally se situait en Haute-Saône à Plancher-les-Mines oú été rassemblé les quelques cent quinze (115) équipages finalement engagés dans cette èpreuve, parmi les deux grands champions, la personne du Nancien Francis Roussely et son navigateur ??? Daniel Fallot au volant d'un Porsche 911 et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle (?) à l'Alpine Renault et qui était venu avec la ferme intention de gagner l'épreuve.
C'était compté sans la détermination (?) du Dijonais Justice (probably Jean-Claude Justice) nouvel vedette régional sur sa R5 Turbo qui attaquait très fort donc près (?) creusant un écart substantiel dans les trois premières spéciales de ??? et de Servance.

Jacques Henry se reveillera bien dans les trois suivantes mais sans pouvoir toutefois(?) surmonter son handicap.

Wow, that was quite hard, I gotta admit. Couldn't make out every single word, sorry. Haven't checked for typos. If you need a translation, let me know. But the above text should contain all the relevant informations.
Did the commentary (=the sound file) come with any footage?

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Post by Sedre » 2 months ago

hollie3sa wrote:
2 months ago
Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa, once again, I need your French language skills.

Here is audio from INA Archives about the 1983 Rallye Franche-Comte. In the first minute there are notes about an accident which took the lives of Felix Seigeot and Danielle Bevilacqua. I believe that they were driver and co-driver respectively and from what I understood following the accident the last special stage was cancelled.
I searched for these cases for several years so your help will be greatly appreciated.

https://mega.nz/file/WTBxhKgL#RdF-HC-5- ... Xc2LBUrORU

If the sound is bad, I'll send a link to mattia2 for download and then he'll add it there.
Sports automobiles

Le 3ème rally de Franch-Comté a été endeuillé Samedi peut avant 20 heures par un accident qui a couté la vie à deux jeunes gens du pays de Montbéliard qui participaient à la course. Dans la 3ème spéciale de Servance, alors que l'épreuve touchait à sa fin, le conducteur d'une vingt-cinq (25) Turbo, Felix Seigeot et son coéquipier Daniel Bevilacqua, sont sortis de la route après avoir ??? une barrière de securité et se sont écrasés dans le ravin sur la route menant du Ballon des Servances au Col des Croix.

Bien sûr ??? reste, sont les risques du métier mais la mort de deux jeunes gents de 20 ans a toujours un côté cruel qui révolte notre conscience.
Après le start des résultats paresse bien (??? - unsure about that part) derrière soir pourtant depuis de la tristesse générale. Notre mission nous oblige à vous tenir informé du l'??? de l'épreuve qu'hier la course continue

La dernière spéciale a été évidemment annullé. Après le départ de Trévenans le cœur du rally se situait en Haute-Saône à Plancher-les-Mines oú été rassemblé les quelques cent quinze (115) équipages finalement engagés dans cette èpreuve, parmi les deux grands champions, la personne du Nancien Francis Roussely et son navigateur ??? Daniel Fallot au volant d'un Porsche 911 et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle (?) à l'Alpine Renault et qui était venu avec la ferme intention de gagner l'épreuve.
C'était compté sans la détermination (?) du Dijonais Justice (probably Jean-Claude Justice) nouvel vedette régional sur sa R5 Turbo qui attaquait très fort donc près (?) creusant un écart substantiel dans les trois premières spéciales de ??? et de Servance.

Jacques Henry se reveillera bien dans les trois suivantes mais sans pouvoir toutefois(?) surmonter son handicap.

Wow, that was quite hard, I gotta admit. Couldn't make out every single word, sorry. Haven't checked for typos. If you need a translation, let me know. But the above text should contain all the relevant informations.
Did the commentary (=the sound file) come with any footage?
Thanks a lot for translation!

This information will be enough. I tried to confirm since 2016 that Seigeot and Bevilacqua died in a racing accident but did not find any exact evidence before yesterday.

My eternal gratitude, honestly. I'll start making their Motorsport Memorial pages immediately.

News reports did not have footage of the accident or wreck. I can ask @mattia2 to download the report itself.

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Post by hollie3sa » 2 months ago

Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
hollie3sa wrote:
2 months ago
Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa, once again, I need your French language skills.

Here is audio from INA Archives about the 1983 Rallye Franche-Comte. In the first minute there are notes about an accident which took the lives of Felix Seigeot and Danielle Bevilacqua. I believe that they were driver and co-driver respectively and from what I understood following the accident the last special stage was cancelled.
I searched for these cases for several years so your help will be greatly appreciated.

https://mega.nz/file/WTBxhKgL#RdF-HC-5- ... Xc2LBUrORU

If the sound is bad, I'll send a link to mattia2 for download and then he'll add it there.
Sports automobiles

Le 3ème rally de Franch-Comté a été endeuillé Samedi peut avant 20 heures par un accident qui a couté la vie à deux jeunes gens du pays de Montbéliard qui participaient à la course. Dans la 3ème spéciale de Servance, alors que l'épreuve touchait à sa fin, le conducteur d'une vingt-cinq (25) Turbo, Felix Seigeot et son coéquipier Daniel Bevilacqua, sont sortis de la route après avoir ??? une barrière de securité et se sont écrasés dans le ravin sur la route menant du Ballon des Servances au Col des Croix.

Bien sûr ??? reste, sont les risques du métier mais la mort de deux jeunes gents de 20 ans a toujours un côté cruel qui révolte notre conscience.
Après le start des résultats paresse bien (??? - unsure about that part) derrière soir pourtant depuis de la tristesse générale. Notre mission nous oblige à vous tenir informé du l'??? de l'épreuve qu'hier la course continue

La dernière spéciale a été évidemment annullé. Après le départ de Trévenans le cœur du rally se situait en Haute-Saône à Plancher-les-Mines oú été rassemblé les quelques cent quinze (115) équipages finalement engagés dans cette èpreuve, parmi les deux grands champions, la personne du Nancien Francis Roussely et son navigateur ??? Daniel Fallot au volant d'un Porsche 911 et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle (?) à l'Alpine Renault et qui était venu avec la ferme intention de gagner l'épreuve.
C'était compté sans la détermination (?) du Dijonais Justice (probably Jean-Claude Justice) nouvel vedette régional sur sa R5 Turbo qui attaquait très fort donc près (?) creusant un écart substantiel dans les trois premières spéciales de ??? et de Servance.

Jacques Henry se reveillera bien dans les trois suivantes mais sans pouvoir toutefois(?) surmonter son handicap.

Wow, that was quite hard, I gotta admit. Couldn't make out every single word, sorry. Haven't checked for typos. If you need a translation, let me know. But the above text should contain all the relevant informations.
Did the commentary (=the sound file) come with any footage?
Thanks a lot for translation!

This information will be enough. I tried to confirm since 2016 that Seigeot and Bevilacqua died in a racing accident but did not find any exact evidence before yesterday.

My eternal gratitude, honestly. I'll start making their Motorsport Memorial pages immediately.

News reports did not have footage of the accident or wreck. I can ask @mattia2 to download the report itself.
The report definitely confirms it. Both were aged 20. It happened during the 3rd SS. They were (very likely) driving a Renault 25 Turbo. And the report tells us more or less the exact place where the accident occurred:

Image

--------------------

I was wondering about the footage (not footage of the wreck/accident) because of the wording of the commentary. The sentence "[...] et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle à l'Alpine Renault [...]" would imho only make sense if the commentary was actually accompanied by some pictures of Henry in the car.
Just a minor detail. Nothing of importance for mm.org.

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Post by Sedre » 2 months ago

hollie3sa wrote:
2 months ago
Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
hollie3sa wrote:
2 months ago
Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa, once again, I need your French language skills.

Here is audio from INA Archives about the 1983 Rallye Franche-Comte. In the first minute there are notes about an accident which took the lives of Felix Seigeot and Danielle Bevilacqua. I believe that they were driver and co-driver respectively and from what I understood following the accident the last special stage was cancelled.
I searched for these cases for several years so your help will be greatly appreciated.

https://mega.nz/file/WTBxhKgL#RdF-HC-5- ... Xc2LBUrORU

If the sound is bad, I'll send a link to mattia2 for download and then he'll add it there.
Sports automobiles

Le 3ème rally de Franch-Comté a été endeuillé Samedi peut avant 20 heures par un accident qui a couté la vie à deux jeunes gens du pays de Montbéliard qui participaient à la course. Dans la 3ème spéciale de Servance, alors que l'épreuve touchait à sa fin, le conducteur d'une vingt-cinq (25) Turbo, Felix Seigeot et son coéquipier Daniel Bevilacqua, sont sortis de la route après avoir ??? une barrière de securité et se sont écrasés dans le ravin sur la route menant du Ballon des Servances au Col des Croix.

Bien sûr ??? reste, sont les risques du métier mais la mort de deux jeunes gents de 20 ans a toujours un côté cruel qui révolte notre conscience.
Après le start des résultats paresse bien (??? - unsure about that part) derrière soir pourtant depuis de la tristesse générale. Notre mission nous oblige à vous tenir informé du l'??? de l'épreuve qu'hier la course continue

La dernière spéciale a été évidemment annullé. Après le départ de Trévenans le cœur du rally se situait en Haute-Saône à Plancher-les-Mines oú été rassemblé les quelques cent quinze (115) équipages finalement engagés dans cette èpreuve, parmi les deux grands champions, la personne du Nancien Francis Roussely et son navigateur ??? Daniel Fallot au volant d'un Porsche 911 et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle (?) à l'Alpine Renault et qui était venu avec la ferme intention de gagner l'épreuve.
C'était compté sans la détermination (?) du Dijonais Justice (probably Jean-Claude Justice) nouvel vedette régional sur sa R5 Turbo qui attaquait très fort donc près (?) creusant un écart substantiel dans les trois premières spéciales de ??? et de Servance.

Jacques Henry se reveillera bien dans les trois suivantes mais sans pouvoir toutefois(?) surmonter son handicap.

Wow, that was quite hard, I gotta admit. Couldn't make out every single word, sorry. Haven't checked for typos. If you need a translation, let me know. But the above text should contain all the relevant informations.
Did the commentary (=the sound file) come with any footage?
Thanks a lot for translation!

This information will be enough. I tried to confirm since 2016 that Seigeot and Bevilacqua died in a racing accident but did not find any exact evidence before yesterday.

My eternal gratitude, honestly. I'll start making their Motorsport Memorial pages immediately.

News reports did not have footage of the accident or wreck. I can ask @mattia2 to download the report itself.
The report definitely confirms it. Both were aged 20. It happened during the 3rd SS. They were (very likely) driving a Renault 25 Turbo. And the report tells us more or less the exact place where the accident occurred:

Image

--------------------

I was wondering about the footage (not footage of the wreck/accident) because of the wording of the commentary. The sentence "[...] et Jacques Henry que nous avons vu à l'instant fidèle à l'Alpine Renault [...]" would imho only make sense if the commentary was actually accompanied by some pictures of Henry in the car.
Just a minor detail. Nothing of importance for mm.org.
To be more correct, Seigeot was 21 and Bevilacqua was 22.

https://deces.politologue.com/seigeot-f ... OvjRO70rO0
https://deces.politologue.com/bevilacqu ... OLnRO70rO0

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Post by Sedre » 2 months ago

@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).

There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.

1)
https://mega.nz/file/nHJS2bqI#OuNNRPPWy ... 67AIc4FjfE
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=12615

I recorded the whole segment so maybe it would be difficult to translate it. I'm interested in the date of the rally (Saturday/Sunday) and details of the accident of Mouetron/Crochet if it will be available.

Second accident happened on 13.04.1997 at Rallye Régional des Vignes de Régnié. One spectator was killed during the last special stage (video description tells "spectatrice" - maybe it means female spectator if I understood correctly). Any information about this accident is desirable.

2)
https://mega.nz/file/uPIyCTwI#dsvF7-9en ... lHHm62cBNY

Both news reports did not contain footage of these accidents; first one has footage of Mouetron/Crochet car (it was remarkable colors in 1991 season) and second one depicts several other accidents where spectators were in close proximity to Darwin Award.

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Post by hollie3sa » 1 month ago

Sedre wrote:
2 months ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).

There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.

1)
https://mega.nz/file/nHJS2bqI#OuNNRPPWy ... 67AIc4FjfE
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=12615

I recorded the whole segment so maybe it would be difficult to translate it. I'm interested in the date of the rally (Saturday/Sunday) and details of the accident of Mouetron/Crochet if it will be available.

Second accident happened on 13.04.1997 at Rallye Régional des Vignes de Régnié. One spectator was killed during the last special stage (video description tells "spectatrice" - maybe it means female spectator if I understood correctly). Any information about this accident is desirable.

2)
https://mega.nz/file/uPIyCTwI#dsvF7-9en ... lHHm62cBNY

Both news reports did not contain footage of these accidents; first one has footage of Mouetron/Crochet car (it was remarkable colors in 1991 season) and second one depicts several other accidents where spectators were in close proximity to Darwin Award.
Haven't forgotten. Will work on it soon.

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Post by hollie3sa » 1 month ago

@Sedre

Image

As stated in the article above, there were 12 driver fatalities at Mosport prior to Manfred Winkelhock's fatal accident in 1985.
At mm.org, I can only find 9:

-Mike Allen
-Dick Brown
-Alister Cameron-Smith
-Eric Hardy
-Kris Hornyak
-Wayne Kelly
-George Milne
-Peter Moennick
-Nick Sperazze


If they are considering motorcycle racing fatalities as well, the number is correct and my comment is to be disregarded:
-Nick Baronian
-Avrum Gudelsky
-unknown


If not: Are there hidden entries at mm.org?

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Post by Sedre » 1 month ago

No, I did not find any hidden entries on Mosport Park, so likely newspaper counts motorcyclists. Maybe they also count Chris Mudge (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... q=a&n=3268) who died in a post-race accident instead of an unnamed biker.
However, I will give about 5-10% percent of possibility that there were two more fatal accidents which were almost unnoticed in available newspapers. George Milne (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... =ct&n=2690) spent about 14 years on site without exact date and circumstances of accident - and still, everything I found was one small newspaper article.

Speaking of obscure cases from Canada, there are three more - two were found by me, last one was found by our admin, Sal:
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=13772
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ms&n=13769
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=13766

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Post by hollie3sa » 1 month ago

Sedre wrote:
1 month ago
No, I did not find any hidden entries on Mosport Park, so likely newspaper counts motorcyclists. Maybe they also count Chris Mudge (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... q=a&n=3268) who died in a post-race accident instead of an unnamed biker.
However, I will give about 5-10% percent of possibility that there were two more fatal accidents which were almost unnoticed in available newspapers. George Milne (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... =ct&n=2690) spent about 14 years on site without exact date and circumstances of accident - and still, everything I found was one small newspaper article.

Speaking of obscure cases from Canada, there are three more - two were found by me, last one was found by our admin, Sal:
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=13772
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ms&n=13769
http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... ct&n=13766

Thank you. I guess you never really know where the newspapers have their informations from.

Re George Milne: I'm trying to gather some info about him from a Mosport related Facebook group. We'll see if something comes up.

--------------------

Re Chris Mudge: See this post: viewtopic.php?p=329570#p329570

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