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Screenshots vs. Photos

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Screenshots vs. Photos

Post by PTRACER » 4 years ago

hollie3sa wrote:
Motorsportrace wrote:If only a video exists, should we post some screenshots?
I've done it for some entries, maybe we should do that for the Mendes crash too.
I'd say so, yes.
But only when no actual photos exist or their quality is unbearable.
I say no, except in extreme circumstances.

I've just edited the most recent Russell Phillips crash entry with actual photos, which someone has already emailed me at 6am this morning and removed the (IMO unnecessary) poor quality screenshots.
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Post by Motorsportrace » 4 years ago

PTRACER wrote:I say no, except in extreme circumstances.
The Augusto Mendes' fatal crash: we only have a video of the aftermath: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=13389&p=284695#p284695
I haven't found pictures online (even tried to search in a Portuguese archive, but there wasn't anything).
What should we do with it?

Also: there's a screenshot on Jo Bonnier's entry, but that's because it shows the wreck, while all the other photos don't.
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Post by PTRACER » 4 years ago

If there are no photos, then I think we shouldn't enter it. Others may disagree.
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Post by Motorsportrace » 4 years ago

PTRACER wrote:If there are no photos, then I think we shouldn't enter it. Others may disagree.
Well... a video, technically, is a sequence of photos... :suspicious:
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Post by hollie3sa » 4 years ago

PTRACER wrote:If there are no photos, then I think we shouldn't enter it. Others may disagree.
I disagree.
Our project is called the Crash Photo Databases. And I agree with you, PTRacer, that videos are not the main substance of it.
But our aim is, as it says in the description on the index page, to "provide racing historians, archivists and enthusiasts with photographs and information on accidents and incidents from the start of motor racing". And that motive outshines the limitation of the CPdB to add photos and nothing else. Therefore, I'm on Motorsportrace's side.

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Post by PTRACER » 4 years ago

My original motive for the database was simply to catalogue the photos we have been collecting here since 2003, and make it searchable. In the last CPdB, we literally decided to work through Openwheel Crashes, or Sportscar crashes page by page. This time we're doing it by 'theme', and so not only do our projects have a direction, but we have a desire for them to be as complete as possible. Which means perhaps 40% of the database is brand new material, never posted here before, and much of it historically significant. And that is a wonderful thing.

But I think we must be careful not to lose sight of it being a database of photos. It would be very easy to decide that certain photos are not good enough, and the videos are better, and before long, half of our entries will simply be screenshots from a low quality YouTube video.

At least if we can agree that screenshots will only be used when NO photos exist, then I can compromise so we can call a project complete. If at least one photo already exists, even if it's quite bad quality, then I think screenshots are not needed.

The database is going to evolve over time, and it's already beyond its original intention. I'm absolutely behind that. But even with 2000 entries down, we're still in the early stages. We need to capture what we have here on the forum primarily, which will make the last 13+ years of this site worthwhile, and THEN we can expand it in new directions.
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Post by Motorsportrace » 4 years ago

PTRACER wrote:My original motive for the database was simply to catalogue the photos we have been collecting here since 2003, and make it searchable. In the last CPdB, we literally decided to work through Openwheel Crashes, or Sportscar crashes page by page. This time we're doing it by 'theme', and so not only do our projects have a direction, but we have a desire for them to be as complete as possible. Which means perhaps 40% of the database is brand new material, never posted here before, and much of it historically significant. And that is a wonderful thing.
Well... yes, we've found new stuff since we started working on the CPDB, and, as you said, it was not the original motive for it.
I think we should pay attention not to add photos there that aren't already here (if I find anything, first I post it here, then I create a new entry on the database).
PTRACER wrote:But I think we must be careful not to lose sight of it being a database of photos. It would be very easy to decide that certain photos are not good enough, and the videos are better, and before long, half of our entries will simply be screenshots from a low quality YouTube video.

At least if we can agree that screenshots will only be used when NO photos exist, then I can compromise so we can call a project complete. If at least one photo already exists, even if it's quite bad quality, then I think screenshots are not needed.
That's what I usually do: I add the photos, then I link video in the "Youtube" field.

But: if no photos exist about an accident (there are some examples: the Mendes crash, the Ishikawa-Reggiani crash, etc.), we're "forced" to make screenshots, since we don't have anything else.
Especially with fatal ones.
If, later, we find a photo about that accident, we can remove the screenshots and, instead, add that photo.

There's also another thing: if the video shows something very important, that no photos show, I think it becomes necessary to include a screenshot of it.
An example: we have a lot of photos of Bonnier's accident, but nothing about the wreck.
Since a video shows it, I've added a screenshot: in my opinion, the wreck is the most important "item" in an "usual" crash (what damage it received, etc.).
PTRACER wrote:The database is going to evolve over time, and it's already beyond its original intention. I'm absolutely behind that. But even with 2000 entries down, we're still in the early stages. We need to capture what we have here on the forum primarily, which will make the last 13+ years of this site worthwhile, and THEN we can expand it in new directions.
I think you're right about it. We should first add what we already have, then look for new stuff.
I could help with new projects.
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Post by hollie3sa » 4 years ago

I really, really appreciate the effort you both are making. But we should move the last three, four comments to another thread so the discussion can continue where it belongs.


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Post by PTRACER » 4 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:
PTRACER wrote:My original motive for the database was simply to catalogue the photos we have been collecting here since 2003, and make it searchable. In the last CPdB, we literally decided to work through Openwheel Crashes, or Sportscar crashes page by page. This time we're doing it by 'theme', and so not only do our projects have a direction, but we have a desire for them to be as complete as possible. Which means perhaps 40% of the database is brand new material, never posted here before, and much of it historically significant. And that is a wonderful thing.
Well... yes, we've found new stuff since we started working on the CPDB, and, as you said, it was not the original motive for it.
I think we should pay attention not to add photos there that aren't already here (if I find anything, first I post it here, then I create a new entry on the database).
Yes. Well, I quite like what hollie3sa is doing lately - directly linking to the database in Crash Photos threads. I think that's far more efficient than creating huge quote trees, or copying and pasting dozens of images into a post.

I also strongly believe this forum should be searched and catalogued first before people look to Google or their personal collections. Jesper is hosting nearly 25GB of photos already, but my server totals only 10GB including the forum. The CPdB is taking up 1.2GB of that already and soon, I will have to pay more money to upgrade my server (which I'm incredibly reluctant to do off my own back when I haven't been able to work since November because of studying).
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