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[cpdb] Current Projects

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Re: [cpdb] Current Projects

Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Ok, I'll do that.
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Nearly 50 items in the database already. Good work so far!
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Post by Jesper Hvid » 5 years ago

I'd like to take care of Le Mans 24 Hours 1923-1989, also, if I may.
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

:agreepost:
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Post by Jesper Hvid » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:Projects
Jesper Hvid - Crashes at Legion Ascot race track
This will however require quite a bit of revisioning, as there appear to be dozens of items on the board, particularly in the IDing topic. Due mainly to photographer Ted Wilson's incredible contribution to pre-WW2 US racing, as seen lately at revslib. I will be attempting to sort these items before actually adding them to the dabase.

Therefore I suggest we NOT put any images there, which aren't sufficiently researched, and, indeed, satisfactorily solved.

Thx men! :happy:
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Post by Jesper Hvid » 5 years ago

Ha! All the Legion Ascoteria is spread all over the place, as I suspected. It'll be the single-greatest challenge in this forum's history, to put the record straight on all of those items. They're nervous, I can feel it in my bones. We're coming for them, now.
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Post by Jesper Hvid » 5 years ago

Right, well, the relevant topics will have to go temp. offline, pending these revisions, then reappear in the shape of a subforum, tho I am aware that we probably don't really need another one of those, hehe, but it's the only way - is acceptable, yes?
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Absolutely. I'm sure whatever you choose to do will be the right decision, so lemme know what I can help you with!

Some really good work guys and good job on getting the first 20 or so Indy fatalities uploaded Motorsportrace! I've done some more British crashes myself tonight, we're up to 71 entries already. At what point should we start advertising to our old members via email?
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

I've ended my project (fatal crashes at Indanapolis).

Only a few of them are not in the database:
- Clifford Littrell, 1909 (http://motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=9516): he, apparently, died on the way to the track, and not in the Speedway;
- Harry Martin, 1913 (http://motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=726): I doubt there's anything;
- Albert Johnson, 1915 (http://motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=3397): it's hard to find an article, let alone a picture;
- Carl Scarborough, 1953 (http://motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=535): he got out of the car and, later, died of heat prostration;
- Unknown, 1964: Two 17-year-old maintenance workers were killed after being struck by lightning. The two men had sought shelter in an outdoor restroom facility when the lightning struck;
- Timothy Scott Vail, 1980: he was in the "Snake Pit" area of the infield when his Jeep overturned. Vail died of a fractured skull. His passenger David Stegenmiller was thrown from the vehicle, but was uninjured;
- Stephen C. White, 1991: he was illegally driving on the track, and, then, struck a van parked to stop him;
- Art Morris, 2004: he was a 20-year Safety Patrol employee. In the infield at approximately 7:30 a.m. during a practice day for the Brickyard 400, he suffered a heart attack causing him to crash his motor scooter into a concrete wall;
- Peter Lenz, 2010: he fell off his motorcycle during the second race of the USGPRU Moriwaki MD250H (warm up) and was struck by another rider. He wasn't running on the oval, but on the MotoGP circuit. This is why I wouldn't include him.

As you can see, we have nearly all the racing deaths at Indianapolis (Except Martin and Johnson). About Renna I only have some screenshots of helicopter aerial views of the aftermath, but I guess that's all we can get.
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

I am very, very impressed Motorsportrace. That was a very quick, thorough job with some great research. Well done! :thumbsup: I'll go through it and make sure everything is complete and accurate then continue my own project tomorrow!

Also we need to clear up a few things.

1. The issue I raised above. My idea was to keep it as simple as possible, so people searching for 'Jim Malloy' will find Jim Malloy's fatal crash. If we start using full names like "Melvin Eugene Bettenhausen", it becomes confusing (I didn't realise that was Tony Snr's actual name). I'd also prefer to write Alfonso de Portago, not Alfonso Antonio Vicente Eduardo Angel Blas Francisco de Borja Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton as I think the full name is irrelevant.

2. "Driver(s)". One part of me says: "Let's change it to 'Involved' so it can include motorcycle riders, spectators, officials etc."

Another part of me says: "No, call it 'Driver(s)/Rider(s)' and use the Description to describe which spectators were killed". E.g. the 1987 crash would have 'Tony Bettenhausen Jr.' in the box. The 1960 scaffold collapse will be empty. My 1938 entry for Joseph Paul at Brooklands lists the drivers Joseph Paul and A.C. Lace, but the spectators/people injured were listed under the Description as there's several of them.

3. Should we add another field which links back to Motorsport Memorial???
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:I am very, very impressed Motorsportrace. That was a very quick, thorough job with some great research. Well done! :thumbsup: I'll go through it and make sure everything is complete and accurate then continue my own project tomorrow!

Also we need to clear up a few things.

1. The issue I raised above. My idea was to keep it as simple as possible, so people searching for 'Jim Malloy' will find Jim Malloy's fatal crash. If we start using full names like "Melvin Eugene Bettenhausen", it becomes confusing (I didn't realise that was Tony Snr's actual name). I'd also prefer to write Alfonso de Portago, not Alfonso Antonio Vicente Eduardo Angel Blas Francisco de Borja Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton as I think the full name is irrelevant.
Well, you're right. Should we write their simple names without their full names (for example: Jim Malloy instead of James "Jim" Malloy)? Or should we include both of them?
About Bettenhausen: I forgot to add "Tony" at the end of "Melvin Eugene".
PTRACER wrote:2. "Driver(s)". One part of me says: "Let's change it to 'Involved' so it can include motorcycle riders, spectators, officials etc."

Another part of me says: "No, call it 'Driver(s)/Rider(s)' and use the Description to describe which spectators were killed". E.g. the 1987 crash would have 'Tony Bettenhausen Jr.' in the box. The 1960 scaffold collapse will be empty. My 1938 entry for Joseph Paul at Brooklands lists the drivers Joseph Paul and A.C. Lace, but the spectators/people injured were listed under the Description as there's several of them.
This is a good question.
I'd personally prefer to have an "involved" field, but, as in the above case, should many people have been injured/killed (as in the Le Mans 1955 disaster), it would be quite difficult to complete.
I don't really know...
PTRACER wrote:3. Should we add another field which links back to Motorsport Memorial???
That would be useful only for fatal crashes, though.

Tell me if there's something wrong about what I did in the database.
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

1. My personal preference is to go with the simple names we know them by. Simply "Tony Bettenhausen Sr." The thing is, I just did a test - I typed "Tony Bettenhausen" into the Search box and both Bettenhausen Sr's 1961 crash, and Bettehausen Jr's 1987 crash appeared. So long as the name is written in the description, it WILL appear, but only if the 'Search' includes "All Fields". Do it by 'Driver(s)' and it doesn't work.

2. Exactly, it would be difficult to complete and perhaps unnecessary. People would likely type in 'Pierre Levegh', but not one of the victims' names.

We'll let Jesper comment before we make changes...

Everything so far seems fine, I think I changed one entry to AAA as 'Alfa Romeo Championship' was selected by mistake. There may be one or two typos I need to correct. Otherwise it looks good!
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:1. My personal preference is to go with the simple names we know them by. Simply "Tony Bettenhausen Sr." The thing is, I just did a test - I typed "Tony Bettenhausen" into the Search box and both Bettenhausen Sr's 1961 crash, and Bettehausen Jr's 1987 crash appeared. So long as the name is written in the description, it WILL appear, but only if the 'Search' includes "All Fields". Do it by 'Driver(s)' and it doesn't work.

2. Exactly, it would be difficult to complete and perhaps unnecessary. People would likely type in 'Pierre Levegh', but not one of the victims' names.

We'll let Jesper comment before we make changes...

Everything so far seems fine, I think I changed one entry to AAA as 'Alfa Romeo Championship' was selected by mistake. There may be one or two typos I need to correct. Otherwise it looks good!
Ok, I understand.
Well... I copied all the descriptions from Motorsportmemorial.org (when available). :mrgreen:
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

I've seen that you added the drivers involved and, if the deceased one was not a driver, a line specifying who he was (spectator, bystander, etc.). That's a good idea, for me.

As I said, I could start to upload all the F1 fatal crashes: they're 26, while the Indianapolis entries were about 50.
Siffert, Depailler, De Angelis, Rodriguez, Castellotti, etc. are not included, right?
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:I've seen that you added the drivers involved and, if the deceased one was not a driver, a line specifying who he was (spectator, bystander, etc.). That's a good idea, for me.

As I said, I could start to upload all the F1 fatal crashes: they're 26, while the Indianapolis entries were about 50.
Siffert, Depailler, De Angelis, Rodriguez, Castellotti, etc. are not included, right?
I think that was your idea in the first place, it's probably the best solution to the problem :smiley: If the list of names is longer than say, 5 or 6, then don't bother to list them at all, just use the Description to say "X number of people were killed/hurt/whatever". The pictures themselves are the most important aspect of this project, the data is presented in a simple form so people can find the photos easily.

'Pierre Levegh' should be sufficient for Le Mans 1955, but we should also list 'Lance Macklin' and 'Mike Hawthorne' under 'Driver(s)' as they were involved in the crash. I've filled some of this information into the database (Les Spangler for example) and added driver names where only the riding mechanic was listed. I have also simplified their names - people can look up their full, official names on other sites if required. I hope you're okay with this :)
Motorsportrace wrote:As I said, I could start to upload all the F1 fatal crashes: they're 26, while the Indianapolis entries were about 50.
Siffert, Depailler, De Angelis, Rodriguez, Castellotti, etc. are not included, right?
If you have all the information compiled and prepared for F1 crashes, please feel free to enter it into the database! Siffert has already been done, but it was a non-championship race so it's not to be included. Ricardo Rodriguez, no.

Castellotti, Cabianca, Anderson, Depailler, De Angelis etc. could be included, as there are only really half a dozen or so testing fatalities anyway.

I'm currently writing an email about the database, which I will send out to all users today. I'm doing some more data entry first though.
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:I think that was your idea in the first place, it's probably the best solution to the problem :smiley: If the list of names is longer than say, 5 or 6, then don't bother to list them at all, just use the Description to say "X number of people were killed/hurt/whatever". The pictures themselves are the most important aspect of this project, the data is presented in a simple form so people can find the photos easily.

'Pierre Levegh' should be sufficient for Le Mans 1955, but we should also list 'Lance Macklin' and 'Mike Hawthorne' under 'Driver(s)' as they were involved in the crash. I've filled some of this information into the database (Les Spangler for example) and added driver names where only the riding mechanic was listed. I have also simplified their names - people can look up their full, official names on other sites if required. I hope you're okay with this :)
Yes, no problem for that.
PTRACER wrote:If you have all the information compiled and prepared for F1 crashes, please feel free to enter it into the database! Siffert has already been done, but it was a non-championship race so it's not to be included. Ricardo Rodriguez, no.

Castellotti, Cabianca, Anderson, Depailler, De Angelis etc. could be included, as there are only really half a dozen or so testing fatalities anyway.
That would include Castellotti, Anderson (we haven't anything about his crash, sadly), Depailler and De Angelis.
Cabianca was testing a Formula Intercontinental car (and he was not preparing for a WDC event, as far as I know), so I wouldn't include him.
But, I don't know why, it sounds unfair (to me) to add testing crashes and not those who died during non-championship F1 races... :whistling:
PTRACER wrote:I'm currently writing an email about the database, which I will send out to all users today. I'm doing some more data entry first though.
Let's hope someone will help us. :mrgreen:
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