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The rebirth of the Crash Photos Database

Our pioneering project aims to identify and catalogue every crash photo in racing history. We cannot do it alone, so if you have any spare time, view this forum and sign up to help!
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Re: The rebirth of the Crash Photos Database

Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Motorsportrace wrote:
PTRACER wrote:It is! I'm so glad you asked about the database, my only wish is that I hadn't abandoned/deleted the original one. We had 65 pages of the Openwheel thread completed, but so many people were against it. :sorrow:
That's strange. Why should they be against it?
Some people are scared of the copyright implications. Don't forget this is before YouTube. Some top members with hundreds (or thousands) of posts literally said, "If you don't stop this project, I'm leaving". Crazy right?
Motorsportrace wrote:
PTRACER wrote:Btw, I hope you realise how much work this will involve :tongue:
Well, yes. I can do something when I have some time.

About the "publicly available" question: I asked if the database will be published so that everyone can see it without logging into the forum.
But I doubt it would be a good idea: just look at what the idiots at documentingreality did and are still doing. Many people joined that website (paying) just because of those crash photos, not knowing they could've seen them totally free here.
Well asking people to pay would be illegal. I intend to keep the database public so anyone can see it, but only a small number of people can edit it (using a password) :) Unless you think I should link it to their forum account (which may be possible?)
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:Some people are scared of the copyright implications. Don't forget this is before YouTube. Some top members with hundreds (or thousands) of posts literally said, "If you don't stop this project, I'm leaving". Crazy right?
Very crazy. I think they would be legally prosecutable also here, the database is only to order all the pictures we have. Or am I wrong?
And, for example, look at the wookey.bbfr.net forum (the successor of Aerogi's forum): thousands of pictures online and ordered by race and driver.
Motorsportrace wrote:Well asking people to pay would be illegal. I intend to keep the database public so anyone can see it, but only a small number of people can edit it (using a password) :) Unless you think I should link it to their forum account (which may be possible?)
It would be a good idea I think, obviously if the member who found that picture wants.
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Yeah pretty much. If we can give some kind of credit at least we can prove we're not stealing. Never heard of wookey, is it popular?

So what else should we do with the database? When shall we start work??
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:Yeah pretty much. If we can give some kind of credit at least we can prove we're not stealing. Never heard of wookey, is it popular?
I don't know, but it has millions of photos from nearly every F1 grand prix. It's great (a member of the Aerogi forum, which has closed, opened this new forum).
PTRACER wrote:So what else should we do with the database? When shall we start work??
Well... I think there are some things to fix:
- The description of Stommelen's crash is too long (for example), and it's not entirely displayed;
- I think that, for the "category", "location" and "event" fields, it's a bit too slow to add a new record every time or search it if it was already created. Could we implement those fields in the same way as the "vehicle" one? It's just an idea, obviously;
- If the driver involved survived, but killed someone else, should we mark it as "fatal"? And write in the description who died and who survived?
-And, last, I suggest to add, for now, only important crashes (fatal or serious ones). Or this project would be abandoned after one day.

To avoid other members to say "stop the project or I'll leave", could we leave it, for now, only inside the forum?
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:Well... I think there are some things to fix:
- The description of Stommelen's crash is too long (for example), and it's not entirely displayed
Oh, I just copied and pasted that from Motorsport Memorial to test the character limit. I'm not taking the database 'seriously' yet :)
Motorsportrace wrote:- I think that, for the "category", "location" and "event" fields, it's a bit too slow to add a new record every time or search it if it was already created. Could we implement those fields in the same way as the "vehicle" one? It's just an idea, obviously;
I designed it that way because on the previous database, one contributor would write "Formula 1", another would write "Formula One", then someone else would write Formel 1. The project is pointless if that happens. Before we start any serious work, perhaps we should gather the names of the most popular racing circuits and race series and enter them into the database manually? Once they are there, all you need to do is select them from the list, which is in alphabetical order :)
Motorsportrace wrote:- If the driver involved survived, but killed someone else, should we mark it as "fatal"? And write in the description who died and who survived?
If someone died, yes. I will rename the 'Driver' field to 'Involved', then people will need to read the description. So for example, Monza 2000 would have:

Involved:
Rubens Barrichello
Jarno Trulli
Pedro De La Rosa
Paolo Ghislimberti

etc.
Motorsportrace wrote:-And, last, I suggest to add, for now, only important crashes (fatal or serious ones). Or this project would be abandoned after one day.

To avoid other members to say "stop the project or I'll leave", could we leave it, for now, only inside the forum?
Agree to both :thumbsup:

By the way, we have a forum for Projects here: viewforum.php?f=63

Maybe we should create a forum for it?
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Post by Motorsportrace » 5 years ago

PTRACER wrote:Oh, I just copied and pasted that from Motorsport Memorial to test the character limit. I'm not taking the database 'seriously' yet :)
Right, it explains everything.
PTRACER wrote:I designed it that way because on the previous database, one contributor would write "Formula 1", another would write "Formula One", then someone else would write Formel 1. The project is pointless if that happens. Before we start any serious work, perhaps we should gather the names of the most popular racing circuits and race series and enter them into the database manually? Once they are there, all you need to do is select them from the list, which is in alphabetical order :)
Well, I was thinking about it. Formula 1/Formula one/Formula uno/Formel eins would be very confusing, as you're pointing out.
It would be a good idea to gather the most important names of the series and circuits. They're really many, though...
PTRACER wrote:If someone died, yes. I will rename the 'Driver' field to 'Involved', then people will need to read the description. So for example, Monza 2000 would have:

Involved:
Rubens Barrichello
Jarno Trulli
Pedro De La Rosa
Paolo Ghislimberti

etc.
Ok. Should we also write, next to the name, who the guy/girl was?

Example:
Rolf Stommelen (Driver);
Joaquín Morera Benaches (Firefighter);
Mario De Roia (Journalist);
Antonio Font Bayarri (Journalist);
Andrés Ruiz Villanova (Spectator);

And, in such cases, should we include only the killed ones?
(else we should add all the injured spectators, and, in many cases, we don't know their names).

Adding all the 82 killed spectators (and Levegh) of the Le Mans tragedy of 1955 would be crazy, though...
PTRACER wrote:Agree to both :thumbsup:

By the way, we have a forum for Projects here: viewforum.php?f=63

Maybe we should create a forum for it?
Well... it depends on how many people would collaborate. I haven't seen so much interest about this project yet...

The last thing: should we include, for people who have accents in their names, their names without the accents?

For searching purposes I always do it, as you can see here:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=404&p=265439#p265439


Sorry for all these questions. Am I too pedantic?
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Post by PTRACER » 5 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:It would be a good idea to gather the most important names of the series and circuits. They're really many, though...
There are yeah...For now, we will enter them as we go along.
Motorsportrace wrote:Ok. Should we also write, next to the name, who the guy/girl was?

Example:
Rolf Stommelen (Driver);
Joaquín Morera Benaches (Firefighter);
Mario De Roia (Journalist);
Antonio Font Bayarri (Journalist);
Andrés Ruiz Villanova (Spectator);
I think the names alone are sufficient, the description can handle the rest. It could end up too much work otherwise.
Motorsportrace wrote:Adding all the 82 killed spectators (and Levegh) of the Le Mans tragedy of 1955 would be crazy, though...
Well, we must be sensible. The database just needs to be a resource that you can search. If someone wants to find photos of the Le Mans 1955 crash, then typing in Le Mans, Pierre Levegh, or 1955 in the Search will show them what they need.
Motorsportrace wrote:Sorry for all these questions. Am I too pedantic?
Not at all, I'm glad you're passionate about the subject! :happy:

By the way, I've created the subforum so we can move discussion there.

Shall I send out a general email to all members asking for help? We should make sure the database is set up and ready to go before we do though :tongue:
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Post by PTRACER » 2 years ago

I'm very pleased to say that the CPdB is getting a LOT of hits and is regularly being linked to on Facebook in various motorsport groups. Photos are not being hotlinked either, but we're getting hits on the actual entries themselves. This is really pleasing news!
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Post by Motorsportrace » 2 years ago

Well... do you have any "stats"?
How many views we get every week/month, what people say about it, etc...?
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Post by PTRACER » 2 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:
2 years ago
Well... do you have any "stats"?
How many views we get every week/month, what people say about it, etc...?
This month, we got 30,143 hits on the main list and 23,336 on individual entries. That's about 10 times as much as the last time I checked.
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Post by sadsac » 2 years ago

I understand why CPD has so many hits PTRACER if you type racing accident/crash or similar on google images the majority of the pictures are from The Fastlane , i haven't tried any other search engines yet
Keep up the good work :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Post by hollie3sa » 2 years ago

No intention to brake your excitement here. But I'm only waiting for the first of many copyright-related strikes.

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Post by PTRACER » 2 years ago

hollie3sa wrote:
2 years ago
No intention to brake your excitement here. But I'm only waiting for the first of many copyright-related strikes.
You mean where we get sued by the copyright police?
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Post by hollie3sa » 2 years ago

Exactly. Above all, the internet loves three things: cats, fortnite-streamers and fucking people over because of unnecessary copyright issues.

What I want to say is: We need to reach out as quickly as possible to those who provided the photos in the first place and ask for their permission. At least to some of them such as www.pro-steilstrecke.de and touringcarracing.net where there's a non-profit, non-commercial background.

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Post by Motorsportrace » 2 years ago

Let's hope everything works out well.

I don't think that Autosprint/Motosprint/whatever scans are forbidden... right?

Or newspapers finds (though all the newspapers.com stuff we have, was obtained not too legally... :suspicious: ).
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Post by hollie3sa » 2 years ago

Motorsportrace wrote:
2 years ago
I don't think that Autosprint/Motosprint/whatever scans are forbidden... right?
I don't know about other countries. But there's a strict law in Germany:

Let's take a photograph for instance.
The author's right is and remains personal. The photographer/author can sell the right to reproduce the picture (i.e. in a newspaper) while the author's right remaines untouched. He and only he has the legal authority to decide who might use his photograph.
The author's right remains in force for 70 (some exceptions: 50) years after the author's death.
With the death of the photographer, the author's right devolves upon his heirs.
The same goes for newspaper articles as well.

When a newspaper publishes an article/photograph, there's two possibilities:
1. The newspaper itself holds the author's right.
2. The newspaper and the author have concluded a contract that regulates the use/reproduction of said article/photograph.

Anyhow:
Scanning articles surely is not forbidden.
Publishing them is. At least with German articles under German law.

Motorsportrace wrote:
2 years ago
Or newspapers finds (though all the newspapers.com stuff we have, was obtained not too legally... :suspicious: ).
I don't see why we would have obtained these articles illegaly. Unless there's a paragraph in their terms of use that explicitly forbids people to save articles without prior registration, we haven't done anything illegal.
We found a way around their insanely sophisticated safety mechanism.

Joke's on us though. We're the ones too stingy to acquire the premium access to their archive.

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