Indycar 2018 - News and Discussion

[kals]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I've been disappointed by Ed Jones' performance through 2018, I was hoping him to take a step forward from an impressive 2017 but he's been largely anonymous. I don't know whether that's down to Ganassi, or Jones or a combination of the two.

I'd say Jones hasn't done all that better than Vautier and Daly in that second DCR entry but that 3rd place at Indy made some people overbet on him. Rosenqvist basically has a higher upside and it's not like Chip hasn't fired drivers after small sample size before. He doesn't have a luxury of a powerhouse multi-car team anymore and is clearly being left behind Penske and AA with only one ace in the pack. It's not like Jones can even play spoiler to aid Dixon's title ambitions since he's usually behind Rossi, RHR and the Penske boys. One DNF for Dixon and things will get hot...

Fair points, although I still feel Jones did an good job in his rookie season with DCR. We know that Jones was not Ganassi's first choice and was a gamble for the team after Hartley was taken back by Red Bull.

[Vassago]

Quite a few drivers have done a good job for DCR in that second car over the last decade, outside of Huertas who was like the old school money stretch and James Jakes, even Mario Moraes did a 'reasonable' job minus the fireworks. Alas nobody has really stepped up to perform for any of the big teams thereafter, most didn't even get a chance. Jones did but like you've said, he's never been the preferred option and Chip feels like he can find someone better IMO. Funny thing is that Hartley can also be out of F1 and I wonder whether he floats onto the ICS market again.

[Ian-S]

One thing I don’t understand is - why don’t they build the concrete walls to be 6ft or even 10ft high to stop them getting into the fence?

Probably money.

More likely physics, the walls will fall over under their own weight if any taller, even more so on high banked ovals. Walls on ovals are not vertical, unless the track is flat, because if they are, they themselves end up acting as a launch ramp, but rather the walls lean in the same amount the corner is banked, so like turn 2 at Pocono, it's 11 degrees I think? The wall will be lent in towards the track at 11 degrees so that when a car hits it, it's hitting a vertical wall, not a wall lent over at 11 degrees ready to launch it airbourne.

If you want an example try to 3D print a wall at 11 degrees, as soon as you get past the thickness with height without any supports, the print will fail because the print collapses in on itself under its own weight.

Having said that, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to put another layer of SAFER barrier on top of the existing SAFER barrier to give it double the height, it could be anchored to the wall to stop it falling over, and because it's pivot point is not at ground level (the cog) it wouldn't be so ready to fall over, so wouldn't need so much anchoring it down.

But you could only do that on reasonably flat ovals like Indy and Pocono, you couldn't do it at say Texas, and would it be worth it for one race a year? I doubt the track does much more than break even with Indycar, let alone bring in enough to besically line the entire track with SAFER barrier a second time.

[kals]

One thing I don’t understand is - why don’t they build the concrete walls to be 6ft or even 10ft high to stop them getting into the fence?

Probably money.

More likely physics, the walls will fall over under their own weight if any taller, even more so on high banked ovals. Walls on ovals are not vertical, unless the track is flat, because if they are, they themselves end up acting as a launch ramp, but rather the walls lean in the same amount the corner is banked, so like turn 2 at Pocono, it's 11 degrees I think? The wall will be lent in towards the track at 11 degrees so that when a car hits it, it's hitting a vertical wall, not a wall lent over at 11 degrees ready to launch it airbourne.

If you want an example try to 3D print a wall at 11 degrees, as soon as you get past the thickness with height without any supports, the print will fail because the print collapses in on itself under its own weight.

Having said that, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to put another layer of SAFER barrier on top of the existing SAFER barrier to give it double the height, it could be anchored to the wall to stop it falling over, and because it's pivot point is not at ground level (the cog) it wouldn't be so ready to fall over, so wouldn't need so much anchoring it down.

But you could only do that on reasonably flat ovals like Indy and Pocono, you couldn't do it at say Texas, and would it be worth it for one race a year? I doubt the track does much more than break even with Indycar, let alone bring in enough to besically line the entire track with SAFER barrier a second time.

Yes, yes and yes

Also this - https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/08/08 ... ne-surgery

[xavier28]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/indycar-drive ... -1.4792946

nadian IndyCar driver Robert Wickens underwent surgery in Allentown, Pa., to have titanium rods and screws placed in his spine to stabilize a fracture after suffering a spinal cord injury in last weekend's crash at Pocono Raceway.

IndyCar said in a statement Tuesday that the severity of the injury was unknown.

Wickens, 29, is expected to undergo more surgery to treat fractures in his lower body and right forearm. The native of Guelph, Ont., remains in stable condition.
His car sailed into the fence at Pocono when he and Ryan Hunter-Reay made slight contact on Sunday.

Hunter-Reay's car spun and Wickens's car launched over it and into the fence. A large hole was torn in the fence. The race was delayed two hours to repair the damage.

Canadian driver Robert Wickens suffers multiple injuries in violent IndyCar crash
IndyCar legend Paul Tracy calling for safety changes after Wickens' crash
Wickens is a rookie in IndyCar but a championship driver in touring cars in Europe. He left that series this year to try IndyCar alongside childhood friend James Hinchcliffe.

The two Canadians became friends racing against each other in the junior ranks, and Hinchcliffe lured Wickens back to North America.
inchcliffe, from Oakville, Ont., and Wickens drive for Schmidt Peterson Motorsports, and Wickens had been surprisingly competitive since his series debut. He was on his way to winning the season opener at St. Petersburg, Fla., until he was spun in the closing laps.

Wickens had one pole, four podiums and a pair of runner-up finishes, and was sixth in the standings before his crash.

He was top rookie at the Indianapolis 500 in May, finishing ninth.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

[Everso Biggyballies]

The worrying part of the latest statement is the final couple of sentences. Leaves a very grey area ewgarding the true extent of his spinal injuries and as yet bo prognosis. Further surgery for the additional fractures is not a concern.... they are relatively like a scratch. It is the spinal injuries that worries me

Schmidt Peterson Motorsports and IndyCar have sent a further update on the spinal surgery Robert Wickens underwent last night, a day after his huge shunt at Pocono Raceway.
A statement read: “Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens underwent surgery Monday, Aug. 20 at Lehigh Valley Hospital - Cedar Crest to stabilize a thoracic spinal fracture, associated with a spinal cord injury sustained during the INDYCAR event at Pocono Raceway on Sunday, Aug. 19.

“Titanium rods and screws were placed successfully in Wickens' spine during the surgery, which was performed without complication.

“The severity of the spinal cord injury is indeterminate at this time..Wickens is expected to undergo further surgeries to treat fractures in his lower extremities and right forearm. He remains in stable condition.”

Hoping we hear something more positive as to the spinal injuries sustained along with hopes for full recovery,

[Andy]

The worrying part of the latest statement is the final couple of sentences. Leaves a very grey area ewgarding the true extent of his spinal injuries and as yet bo prognosis. Further surgery for the additional fractures is not a concern.... they are relatively like a scratch. It is the spinal injuries that worries me

Schmidt Peterson Motorsports and IndyCar have sent a further update on the spinal surgery Robert Wickens underwent last night, a day after his huge shunt at Pocono Raceway.
A statement read: “Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens underwent surgery Monday, Aug. 20 at Lehigh Valley Hospital - Cedar Crest to stabilize a thoracic spinal fracture, associated with a spinal cord injury sustained during the INDYCAR event at Pocono Raceway on Sunday, Aug. 19.

“Titanium rods and screws were placed successfully in Wickens' spine during the surgery, which was performed without complication.

“The severity of the spinal cord injury is indeterminate at this time..Wickens is expected to undergo further surgeries to treat fractures in his lower extremities and right forearm. He remains in stable condition.”

Hoping we hear something more positive as to the spinal injuries sustained along with hopes for full recovery,

One line above mate

Titanium rods and screws were placed successfully in Wickens' spine....

That's far from indeterminate. They know exactly what's going on since they had him open right there. The only thing remaining is waiting for the progress or lack of Robert is making.
Fingers crossed for a full recovery.

[Ian-S]

By indeterminate I think they mean he is so high on drugs they cannot do prick tests on his feet to test feeling, and obviously because his legs/feet are broke he cannot move them either until they are set, same with arms etc. so they are going to have to wait until his feet/legs/arms are more healed to test and see if the spinal column is damaged permanently.

I suspect he has no feeling, but they don't know if that's spinal cord swelling, the drugs or just the good old shock of it all, this is one of those situations where quiet literally, time will tell.

[John]

They need to sort out the catch fencing, or rather find a more workable solution. Especially at Pocono T2, where there's zero stands or anything.

[Vassago]

SPM #6 has been withdrawn from Gateway like I suspected it would be. Leaders Circle money is one thing but this is obviously a case of 'force majeure'.

[kals]

SPM #6 has been withdrawn from Gateway like I suspected it would be. Leaders Circle money is one thing but this is obviously a case of 'force majeure'.

Good to know. For some reason I thought Jack Harvey was going to take the seat, no idea why though.

[MonteCristo]

In not quite exciting news, Chaves will be back at Gateway for Harding.

You may all resume breathing now.

[John]

Injured IndyCar driver Robert Wickens' team boss Sam Schmidt has renewed calls for safety changes on ovals following the Pocono accident.

Wickens sustained injuries to his spine, lower extremities and right arm when his car was launched into the catchfencing over Ryan Hunter-Reay in last Sunday's race.

The Canadian rookie had rods and screws inserted into his spine during surgery on fractures on Tuesday, but a medical statement afterwards said the "severity of the spinal cord injury is indeterminate".

Schmidt Peterson team co-owner Schmidt was left quadriplegic after a crash on the Orlando oval in 2000.

Dan Wheldon was driving for Schmidt when he suffered his fatal crash at Las Vegas in 2011, and SPM drivers Mikhail Aleshin and James Hinchcliffe both sustained serious injuries in oval accidents in the last four years.

"We've got to figure something out, and I've been saying this since Dan died in 2011," Schmidt told Autosport.

"I hate complaining about something or calling for changes when I haven't got a solution. I'm not the guy with the answers.

"But what I've asked for since then is that in the turns where there is no grandstand so no spectator sight-lines are affected, they should go double-high with the SAFER barrier.

"Maybe that's only a short-term fix, but the SAFER is tested and it doesn't spring the cars back onto the track like some people have worried about regarding the 'plexiglass' solution.

"If you looked at a replay of Mikhail's accident, at Robbie's accident, and others - including NASCAR - another three feet of SAFER barrier would have contained the car within the track without this cheese-grater effect that catchfencing has.

"I don't know if that's a long-term fix, I don't know the level of investment required, but certainly on turns where spectator viewing isn't an issue, the oval tracks need to do something like that."

Schmidt lauded the work of the IndyCar safety team and the Lehigh Valley Hospital that is treating Wickens.

"I can't praise enough the IndyCar safety team and how they work with the local hospitals and surgeons," he said.

"The doctors are ticking all the boxes, doing everything they can, everything that needs doing for someone after such a violent crash when circumstances push the car and the human body to the absolute limit.

"To see Robbie with his eyes open at the infield care centre was huge, because 40 minutes of silence was just too long.

"Kudos to Dallara, the folks on the technical side of IndyCar, the safety team, and all the people who've contributed to the procedures and protocol that has been built in to the IndyCar system to cover those situations."


"I've only known Robbie for about a year but he's the type of guy for whom racing is his life," he said.

"He's really enjoying IndyCar, he likes the atmosphere and the quality of the competition. It seems to suit him so well.

"So if he feels he can still be competitive, I have no doubt that he would come back. He's the type of committed, driven individual who can overcome huge setbacks.

"He's such a hard and talented driver that he makes everyone else in the team raise their game, higher than they've ever been before, and you see it in the pitstops, in the chassis development, and so on.

"He's testing people, but he's also inspiring them and so that also draws the team members closer.

"But that's what makes this kind of situation all that much worse.

"We all recognise his talents and we don't know if he could have got third or fourth in the championship this year, but he'd have given it a hell of a try.

"That's just a fantastic performance by a rookie, however much experience he had from other series."

Schmidt said there was "nothing left" of Wickens car, but that its safety cell had performed as it should.

"There's catchfence pieces intertwined in the entire chassis," he said.

"It's just a big pile of crap without a usable part - but that's how it's supposed to be, to dissipate energy during an accident like that.

"It helped protect the one element it's supposed to protect: the driver."

SPM will only enter Hinchcliffe's car for this weekend's Gateway race, with Schmidt admitting plans for the subsequent Portland and Sonoma rounds remained uncertain but that the sponsors on Wickens' cars had told the team to "focus on Robbie, focus on his needs, focus on his family, focus on Hinch having a successful finish to the season".

Schmidt added: "The phone's been ringing off the hook with potential replacements, but first I want to get the team in a huddle this weekend to discuss the best way forward."

[kals]

What Schmidt is saying about increasing the height of SAFER barriers makes sense in theoretical terms, but then...

How do you implement? My first thoughts are that going from regular height to increased height will either create a ramp or they'll be at a right angle. Neither are safe solutions.

What are the cost implications? Most tracks are running events at a loss and struggling year on year. Will they be happy to invest to retrofit just for a single event?

How will the SAFER barrier stay in place and create a secure cushion should a car hit it? The current SAFER barriers are tethered to the concrete barrier with impact absorbing sections sitting between the barrier and the wall. Increasing the height of the SAFER barrier would mean needing to increasing the height of the concrete barrier. You couldn't replicate the system by tethering the SAFER barrier to the catch fencing.

[Ian-S]

It will create a ramp but it would have to be a really freak accident to have someone climb up the safer barrier on corner entry, and it it is a serious concern, just angle the beginning of the extended wall away from the track instead of up, it's good enough for every other track in the world to have walls coming in towards the track, so why not one that won't ever be hit unless a car is flying at corner entry.

The barrier would, as I suggested, site on top of the existing one, probably tethered from behind to the concrete wall and welded in place, the safer barrier is actually quiet heavy, they are not tethered to the wall, they sit on the floor and the polystyrene blocks act as energy absorbers, you need a forklift to move it, I think they are only fixed to the concrete wall in two places (each end of the segment) you wouldn't need to increase the height of the wall behind to fix it to it, you could manufacture up a bracket if needed.

The cost, and practical application of high banked ovals is the main issue, Indy won't even put SAFER barrier in the short chutes or straights, so they defo won't put a double height version in the corners (on another subject how the fuck they have got away with that is another matter since NASCAR mandate their ovals have either SAFER or tyre barriers, and no exposed concrete walls at all on either side of the track).

[John]

What Schmidt is saying about increasing the height of SAFER barriers makes sense in theoretical terms, but then...

How do you implement? My first thoughts are that going from regular height to increased height will either create a ramp or they'll be at a right angle. Neither are safe solutions.

What are the cost implications? Most tracks are running events at a loss and struggling year on year. Will they be happy to invest to retrofit just for a single event?

How will the SAFER barrier stay in place and create a secure cushion should a car hit it? The current SAFER barriers are tethered to the concrete barrier with impact absorbing sections sitting between the barrier and the wall. Increasing the height of the SAFER barrier would mean needing to increasing the height of the concrete barrier. You couldn't replicate the system by tethering the SAFER barrier to the catch fencing.

All valid points and like Schmidt says, he's not the one with the answers. Nor am I.

If you take Pocono as an example, you could theoretically have a heightened SAFER barrier all the way from Turn 1 to the exit of Turn 3. Remember the Kenny Bräck/Schechter crash at Texas which started down the back straight. But then again,money, etc.

Oval racing will never be safe, but I don't mind if they start discussing these issues.