BRM - Where did it all go wrong?

[futuretiger9]

In 1972, BRM seemed to have a promising future in F1. They had been very competitive in 1971, winning races, and had just signed a new sponsorship deal with Marlboro.

Why did the team go into terminal decline, notwithstanding the wonderful Beltoise victory at Monaco?

There have been suggestions that the budget was not in fact that lavish. Was this why they ran four or five cars at some races in the early 1970s, hiring rent-a-drivers to balance the books?

The loss of Siffert and Rodriguez in 1971 was obviously devastating, but they still had Beltoise, Gethin, Ganley etc.

The departure of Tony Southgate to Shadow cannot have helped matters.

Could BRM still have been a force for the rest of the 70s?

[Edgar Jessop]

In 1972, BRM seemed to have a promising future in F1. They had been very competitive in 1971, winning races,

But you have to remember that BRM had been pretty rubbishy from 1949 to 1961 inclusve and then again from 1966 to 1969. No real surprise that they reverted to type from 1973 to 1977.

BTW Nick Mason [I presume he still owns a V16 BRM?] rather splendidly explains the complexity of the BRM V16 as 'akin to the Victorians building a moon rocket! ... and they damn near succeeded!!'

[caneparo]

1973 was a good season for BRM with Lauda often in the first positions.

[Everso Biggyballies]

In 1972, BRM seemed to have a promising future in F1. They had been very competitive in 1971, winning races,

But you have to remember that BRM had been pretty rubbishy from 1949 to 1961 inclusve and then again from 1966 to 1969. No real surprise that they reverted to type from 1973 to 1977.

They still won 17 GPs out of less than 200 started, won Championships, and their honour roll of drivers was pretty special... 5 WDC's that I can think of off the top of my head....

... Look at the last half a dozen drivers to win in a BRM for a start...

1972 Monaco - Jean-Pierre BELTOISE - P160B
1971 Italy - Monza - Peter GETHIN - P160
1971 Austria - Osterreichring - Jo SIFFERT - P160
1970 Belgium - Spa - Pedro RODRIGUEZ - P153
1966 Monaco - Jackie STEWART - P261
1965 USA Watkins Glen - Graham HILL - P261


You people may mock the team that I used to travel the country to watch (Seppi would have travelled the country a bit more than I....given that he was 200 miles further away than I was from Brands Hatch, and a few more from Silverstone as well.) Anyway you may mock, but they were Britains answer to Ferrari , doing chassis engine and gearbox all in house, and there is no-one who ever made pretty well ALL their engines sound quite so superb


quote Caneparo

1973 was a good season for BRM with Lauda often in the first positions.

Pretty sure Lauda never finished on the podium whilst at BRM Toni.... I think 1973 was not a great time for the team, and Lauda had more DNF's than finishes, and scored only two points all year..... 5th at Spa where he had run in 4th, to be passed on the last lap.

1973 BRM finished down in Ferrariland as far as WCC points was concerned.

Lauda did run in 3rd at Monaco for a number of laps (wasnt that where he became known / noticed by Enzo?) He matched that at the British GP as well, and was leading the wet 'Safety Car' famous Canada Race after a fabulous start from back down the grid. He then passed Ronnie P and Scheckter, but fell back when it dried out... until the BRMs gearbox cried enough.

Lauda's first ever podium was Argentina 1974 in Mr Enzo's Ferrari.

[Seppi]

Why did the team go into terminal decline, notwithstanding the wonderful Beltoise victory at Monaco?

I am staying out of this thread because it hurts me too much

My only answer... two main reasons ..
1. Louis Stanley

2. Internal politics

Seppi

[caneparo]

1973 was a good season for BRM with Lauda often in the first positions.

Pretty sure Lauda never finished on the podium whilst at BRM Toni.... I think 1973 was not a great time for the team, and Lauda had more DNF's than finishes, and scored only two points all year..... 5th at Spa where he had run in 4th, to be passed on the last lap.

1973 BRM finished down in Ferrariland as far as WCC points was concerned.

Lauda did run in 3rd at Monaco for a number of laps (wasnt that where he became known / noticed by Enzo?) He matched that at the British GP as well, and was leading the wet 'Safety Car' famous Canada Race after a fabulous start from back down the grid. He then passed Ronnie P and Scheckter, but fell back when it dried out... until the BRMs gearbox cried enough.

Lauda's first ever podium was Argentina 1974 in Mr Enzo's Ferrari.

In fact I was meant to mean: "Lauda often starting in the first position"

From Ferrari's words he got in love with Lauda watching the aforementioned Moncao GP. He noticed this young guy that was often starting in the front row, and he could cope the lack of speed of his car with his pure speed, but unfortunatelly the BRM was unreliable. Therefore Ferrari thought that giving Lauda a reliable car he could have get more he was getting in that season that was disastrous for Ferrari

[Edgar Jessop]

They still won 17 GPs out of less than 200 started,

But how many more GPs did they NOT start, or not show up to, having entered?

I am staying out of this thread because it hurts me too much

My only answer... two main reasons ..
1. Louis Stanley

2. Internal politics

Seppi

Like everyone else here I have a great affection for BRM but surely internal politics and later the weird machinations of Louis T Stanley were the absolute essence of the company? I for one like [not adore BRM] in spite of everything I've heard about them. And they made some of the best looking F1 cars in 1969 [P133] and right at the beginning of 1970 when the P153 was launched in the team's dark green with orange noseband

For what it's worth, one of the best ever threads on Atlas TNF is a rollocking ambi-sexual romp through BRM's history called "Folkingham" [named after the place, not the practice!].

[PTRACER]

Bobby Unser was shafted by BRM back in 1968, causing him to turn away from F1 with a passionate dislike of the sport, when he could have been a dominant force throughout the late-60s/early-70s.

In an article I read in Motorsport Magazine a year or so ago, he said he was intentionally given a real piece of junk while team mate Rodriguez was given a much better car, despite the fact Louis Stanley had told him both drivers would have equal cars.

Unser had broken his ankle in an accident playing basketball before the US GP and was eventually convinced to take part in the race. He went to a doctor and had a pain-killing injection, as well as some pain-killing pills and went out and wrecked the car, writing it off. Nothing was salvageable, so Unser had a seat made up and he took Rodriguez's spare - although the transmission wasn't functioning right, he found the engine to have about 30% more horsepower than the one Stanley had given him in his own car.

He told Stanley he'd been had, drove the race in Pedro's spare anyway with the dodgy transmission (which no one bothered to fix) and walked away from Grand Prix racing forever.

So, when you look at it that way, if Louis Stanley was messing his drivers around, no wonder the team went down the pan.

[Cheeveer]

Bobby & Al Unser, AJ Foyt, Gordon Johncock & Johnny Rutherford. Wonder how they would've done in F1.

[futuretiger9]

So, when you look at it that way, if Louis Stanley was messing his drivers around, no wonder the team went down the pan.

Clay Regazzoni came up with an infamous quote when Big Lou was giving him the hard sell about the team's plans before signing him for the '73 GP season - words to the effect of "forget the car, what about the money?", although Clay put it in much more basic terms!

[Jacob]

The years 1970–1974 in close up:

https://www.sportfahrer-zentrale.de/AUT ... SH-EN.html