The 'Questions That Don't Warrant Their Own Thread' Thread

Racing events, drivers, cars or anything else from the past.
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#556

Post by Antonov »

Bottom post of the previous page:

I assume it must have been something along the lines of "it just took off and I didn't see it again".
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#557

Post by hollie3sa »

Yeah, you're probably right.
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#558

Post by Antonov »

Did Lauda make his comeback in 1982 due to missing F1, or due to much needed funds for his company?
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#559

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Antonov wrote: 5 years ago Did Lauda make his comeback in 1982 due to missing F1, or due to much needed funds for his company?
Neither.... he says he returned for the challenge (but I am sure the money helped, as he would have needed plenty to set up Lauda Air.) He had decided he was not going to race for less that he earnt as a WDC, and would still be the highest paid driver.

When he retired he did so mid race weekend because he was in his own words because he was bored, and there was no challenge, it was only painful. He had just tested the car he would have been driving the following year with Brabham, and he was being powered by a DFV V8, the first time since he was with March he had not had 12 cylinders. So after practice in Canada he walked away from F1, left his suit and helmet behind and went to the airport. He had lost all his motivation for F1. His airline had become his new challenge.

For two years he did not go to a race, watch on TV or even follow results of races. He just worked on his airline.Then one day he was asked to commentate at a race, just after Ron Dennis had asked him if he ever thought of a comeback (Niki said no). At the race he commentated on there was a big startline crash, and it excited him. He just decided he wanted to be in F1 again, he wanted to take risks again.

Ron again offered him a chance to just try a car if he wished, so he agreed to run in a Mclaren at a private and 'secret' day at Donnington.It went well and he was fairly quick, so he asked for a big wad of cash. Marlboro baulked at his demands, thinking he was past his best.... so Niki did a deal where he would come back on a three race contract on his (financial) terms and if after three races he had not proved himself they could sack him no questions asked. He finished 4th in his first race, DNFd with a mechanical fault in the second, and won the third race. McLaren and Marlboro were happy.... they had won just one race in the two years Niki was retired. Niki was contracted on his financial terms.

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#560

Post by PTRACER »

@Everso Biggyballies Niki was a clever man.
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#561

Post by Antonov »

how soon in the 1998 season did it became apparent neither Frentzen, nor Villeneuve, would continue with Williams for '99?
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#562

Post by kals »

Antonov wrote: 4 years ago how soon in the 1998 season did it became apparent neither Frentzen, nor Villeneuve, would continue with Williams for '99?
JV was pretty much guaranteed to be leaving Williams as soon as the BAR project was announced but I'm unsure of the timeline. As for Frentzen, he (plus Damon Hill) signed for Jordan on 10th September 1998 while Ralf Schumacher was released from his Jordan contract the week earlier. This is just a couple of weeks after the Belgian GP where Michael was unhappy with the team orders decision and told Eddie Jordan that Ralf would no longer drive for his team, thus buying his brother out of his contract. Not sure this entirely answers your question although should give some details. I'm guessing Frentzen was on a 2-year contract with Williams and was probably clear early on that season that Williams would not be renewing.
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#563

Post by Antonov »

cool thanks for that. The BAR project must have been announced pretty early in the year one would think?

As for Frentzen - I always thought he had to make way for Zanardi.
Was Zanardi genuinely considered to be a front runner for '99?

Also surprised Montoya was already testing back in '98 - I thought it only started in '99.
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#564

Post by kals »

Antonov wrote: 4 years agocool thanks for that. The BAR project must have been announced pretty early in the year one would think?
Well it happened when BAR acquired Tyrrell.
Antonov wrote: 4 years agoAs for Frentzen - I always thought he had to make way for Zanardi.
Was Zanardi genuinely considered to be a front runner for '99?
No to Frentzen. Zanardi was considered a shrewd signing by Williams, but early on in testing it was clear he was going to struggle.
Antonov wrote: 4 years agoAlso surprised Montoya was already testing back in '98 - I thought it only started in '99.
Montoya was testing for Williams in 1997.

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#565

Post by Antonov »

kals wrote: 4 years ago
Montoya was testing for Williams in 1997.

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I understand he got a better feel for the car when steel brakes were installed, but by then his fate was pretty much sealed.
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#566

Post by kals »

Antonov wrote: 4 years agoI understand he got a better feel for the car when steel brakes were installed, but by then his fate was pretty much sealed.
What?
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#567

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

kals wrote: 4 years ago
Antonov wrote: 4 years agoI understand he got a better feel for the car when steel brakes were installed, but by then his fate was pretty much sealed.
What?
Probably at least 30 years since any F1 car ran non carbon brakes. Or ever since having got the idea from Concorde, they were introduced to F1 by Gordon Murray at Brabham in the late seventies, although Surtees had trialled them briefly before that. Carbon brakes have a higher coefficient of friction than steel. There were problems with early carbon brakes when they used a combination of carbon and steel, and the different expansion rates in the two materials caused issues, but by the early eighties Brabham were using all carbon.

For the anoraks the first race won by a car with full carbon brakes was Nelson Piquet at the 1982 Brazilian GP. (Although the car was DSQ'd post race for being underweight!) :haha:

Brabham had an exclusive deal with the carbon brakes manufacturer (Hitco in the US) so the other teams had to go elsewhere to source the technology (Carbon Industrie, the French co. that supplied the aero industry) but development of the concept for F1 took C.I. nearly two years to perfect. Carbon brakes more than helped Piquet to the driver's championship in 1983.

As @Antonov said, Zanardi did however try Steel discs albeit with carbon pads at Williams, but braking is compromised and full carbon is way more efficient and a fraction of the weight (well over 5kg per disc). He could not get comfortable with the performance of carbon brakes, braking too gently with them, unable to get his head round the available performance and how late you could brake at first, and they remained too cold. The latest sintered carbon metallic friction materials are almost as good as carbon, but the weight is the issue.

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#568

Post by kals »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 years ago
kals wrote: 4 years ago
Antonov wrote: 4 years agoI understand he got a better feel for the car when steel brakes were installed, but by then his fate was pretty much sealed.
What?
Probably at least 30 years since any F1 car ran non carbon brakes. Or ever since having got the idea from Concorde, they were introduced to F1 by Gordon Murray at Brabham in the late seventies, although Surtees had trialled them briefly before that. Carbon brakes have a higher coefficient of friction than steel. There were problems with early carbon brakes when they used a combination of carbon and steel, and the different expansion rates in the two materials caused issues, but by the early eighties Brabham were using all carbon.

For the anoraks the first race won by a car with full carbon brakes was Nelson Piquet at the 1982 Brazilian GP. (Although the car was DSQ'd post race for being underweight!) :haha:

Brabham had an exclusive deal with the carbon brakes manufacturer (Hitco in the US) so the other teams had to go elsewhere to source the technology (Carbon Industrie, the French co. that supplied the aero industry) but development of the concept for F1 took C.I. nearly two years to perfect. Carbon brakes more than helped Piquet to the driver's championship in 1983.

As @Antonov said, Zanardi did however try Steel discs albeit with carbon pads at Williams, but braking is compromised and full carbon is way more efficient and a fraction of the weight (well over 5kg per disc). He could not get comfortable with the performance of carbon brakes, braking too gently with them, unable to get his head round the available performance and how late you could brake at first, and they remained too cold. The latest sintered carbon metallic friction materials are almost as good as carbon, but the weight is the issue.
Yes that's all well and good, but @Antonov's comment was in response to Montoya testing for Williams in 1997 accompanied by a picture I'd posted.
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#569

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Lol... well it was 4am for me when I read it. :oops:
AFAIK Montoya did not try steel brakes, only Zanardi (and Hill tried cast iron brakes in 1995)

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#570

Post by kals »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 years ago (and Hill tried cast iron brakes in 1995)
lol I'd always wondered why he kept running into Schumacher that year
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#571

Post by Antonov »

kals wrote: 4 years ago
Antonov wrote: 4 years ago how soon in the 1998 season did it became apparent neither Frentzen, nor Villeneuve, would continue with Williams for '99?
JV was pretty much guaranteed to be leaving Williams as soon as the BAR project was announced but I'm unsure of the timeline
Wikipedia
The deal [in which Craig Pollock was the majority purchaser of Tyrrell's equity] was announced on 2 December 1997.
Wikipedia
On 23 July 1998 BAR announced the signing of World Champion Jacques Villeneuve
so that was the weekend of the Austrian Grand prix, the stage of the championship in which the FW20 started to become a bit better (the following Grand Prix in Germany and Hungary were podium finishes for Villeneuve).

Wikipedia
Williams visited Zanardi, who signed a three-year contract in July 1998 which was publicly confirmed in September of that year.
you'd imagine that bringing in Zanardi was an immediate reaction to Villeneuve going to BAR.
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