1958 Peter Collins Fatal Crash Footage From Italian TV-Prog.

samoth · #46

Bottom post of the previous page:

Oh peoples, i believe this is not the accident from 1958 Nürburgring GP, look at the cars, there is a Porsche from 1959 until 1961, definitive!The Porsche was the 4 cyl. 718 from 59 and 60 a F2 car, there is a little BRM-Lotus or Lotus 21 This are cars from 1961 but not before!
And the other cars look like from the year 60 or 61! 1958 the onliest rear engine car was the cooper, in this scene where a sharp right turn is, are all rear engine cars!!! All the other great 2,5 liter cars was front engine cars. The right turn scene is not the accident from Peter Collins! The cars are all much to tiny for the big 2,5 liter cars. Maybe F2 or F1 with the 1,5 liter cars. And i don´t know what position in the Pflanzgarten section this turn is, cause the Pflanzgarten is way steeper... Maybe really the accident from Solitude?

Please look yourself

Thomas

PS: This is not afront or so...

Jesper Hvid · #47

If you're right then the people behind "Sfide" should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

Do you think possibly the aftermath bit is Collins? I've tried to compare cars as well, but I only concentrated on the crash/wreck, never thought to look at the other cars (not that I would know much about that anyway).

Jesper Hvid · #48

Does anyone have this book:

http://www.autobuch.at/shop/prod_summar ... &ucat=3019

I've ordered a copy. It has more than 400 pics, maybe one of them matches the scenery in this incident. We can't have this wrong IDing stuff, it's a total disgrace.

I can't find anything helpful here: http://www.solitude-memorial.de/

Jesper Hvid · #49

I'll get this as well, it's inexpensive:

http://suche.motorbuch-versand.de/200338.htm

samoth · #50

Jesper Hvid wrote:If you're right then the people behind "Sfide" should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

Do you think possibly the aftermath bit is Collins? I've tried to compare cars as well, but I only concentrated on the crash/wreck, never thought to look at the other cars (not that I would know much about that anyway).

Hello Jesper! Thank you for your reply: The aftermath you can´t see details i know nothing about this. But one thing i know 100 %: The turnright scene is not 1958! Maybe the "sfide" didn´t know too about the scene. In all the Nürburgringfootage between 1934 and 1970 i know, there was very little videofootage in the section Planzgarten (the section has usually three parts: Pflanzgarten I, Planzgarten II and Pflanzgarten III) but here was ususally no camera, i have a 1954 VHS Tape with amateurraces here is a small camera in Planzgarten, but a complete other scene. The angle of the right turn was not "Pflanzgarten conform". Yeah it´s a shame..

Thomas

ChiliFan · #51

samoth wrote:
Jesper Hvid wrote:If you're right then the people behind "Sfide" should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

Do you think possibly the aftermath bit is Collins? I've tried to compare cars as well, but I only concentrated on the crash/wreck, never thought to look at the other cars (not that I would know much about that anyway).
Hello Jesper! Thank you for your reply: The aftermath you can´t see details i know nothing about this. But one thing i know 100 %: The turnright scene is not 1958! Maybe the "sfide" didn´t know too about the scene. In all the Nürburgringfootage between 1934 and 1970 i know, there was very little videofootage in the section Planzgarten (the section has usually three parts: Pflanzgarten I, Planzgarten II and Pflanzgarten III) but here was ususally no camera, i have a 1954 VHS Tape with amateurraces here is a small camera in Planzgarten, but a complete other scene. The angle of the right turn was not "Pflanzgarten conform". Yeah it´s a shame..

Thomas

I don't remember Pflantzgarten ever having armco or advertisement hoardings either.

caneparo · #52

I am sorry for this. I just posted the footage requested, and I'm no Nurburgring expert so I can't help in this ID

samoth · #53

caneparo wrote:I am sorry for this. I just posted the footage requested, and I'm no Nurburgring expert so I can't help in this ID

Hello Caneparo!
Oh, really no problem! I like the footage really much! It doesn´t a matter all!
Thomas

Jesper Hvid · #54

caneparo wrote:I am sorry for this. I just posted the footage requested, and I'm no Nurburgring expert so I can't help in this ID

No way you could know that it wasn't/isn't Collins. I believed every word of it myself, on the merits of it being a serious motorsports program. I wonder why Frère didn't protest - maybe he never actually saw that piece of footage. For all I know, the aftermath bit might still be Collins, of course. But it's totally out of order to put that crash clip in the program. They didn't even make that gross mistakes on the "Nazi GP" program about Richard Seaman, which you may have seen or read about on TNF. I believe Doug Nye called it "a rum do". Ordinary people will always take that sort of thing at face value, and in a matter of minutes you've falsely rewritten motorsport history. A damn disgrace.

caneparo · #55

well I will try to ask pardon with a new video from that broadcast (I'm actually preparing a 1977 Monaco extensive review with subs).
I let you choose among:
1-life of Bandini (with many interviews to the guy, his wife, and some nasty footage of his orrible crash:( )
2-Niki Lauda and Ferrari (usual bunch of interviews, onboard camera on the 312T, the first lap crash at Nurburgring 1974)
3-Monza 1961 (story of the crash with footage and interview to Phil Hill)
1,2 or 3?

#56

Could it be somewhere like Monza? It's got to be a permanent circuit, because of the barrier and the advertising hoardings.

groubite · #57

caneparo wrote:well I will try to ask pardon with a new video from that broadcast (I'm actually preparing a 1977 Monaco extensive review with subs).
I let you choose among:
1-life of Bandini (with many interviews to the guy, his wife, and some nasty footage of his orrible crash:( )
2-Niki Lauda and Ferrari (usual bunch of interviews, onboard camera on the 312T, the first lap crash at Nurburgring 1974)
3-Monza 1961 (story of the crash with footage and interview to Phil Hill)
1,2 or 3?

Hi caneparo I'd chose option 1, with Bandini. I'd love to learn more about this fantastic and friendly driver. Not so much interested in the crash though. But definetly about him and his wife. That should be great stuff. Please advise what you can do. Cheers.

As for the Collins crash: well, you cannot get it right all the the time, can you? We must accept that there isn't footage of everything around. And this is a fact. We are humans, and we make mistake! So what... let's get on with it. Thank you for your help and contribution anyway.

caneparo · #58

Then it will be Bandini's retrospective. Unfortunatelly there's few minutes about his tragic end, with the terrible footage of bandini being extracted

samoth · #59

groubite wrote:
caneparo wrote:well I will try to ask pardon with a new video from that broadcast (I'm actually preparing a 1977 Monaco extensive review with subs).
I let you choose among:
1-life of Bandini (with many interviews to the guy, his wife, and some nasty footage of his orrible crash:( )
2-Niki Lauda and Ferrari (usual bunch of interviews, onboard camera on the 312T, the first lap crash at Nurburgring 1974)
3-Monza 1961 (story of the crash with footage and interview to Phil Hill)
1,2 or 3?
Hi caneparo I'd chose option 1, with Bandini. I'd love to learn more about this fantastic and friendly driver. Not so much interested in the crash though. But definetly about him and his wife. That should be great stuff. Please advise what you can do. Cheers.

As for the Collins crash: well, you cannot get it right all the the time, can you? We must accept that there isn't footage of everything around. And this is a fact. We are humans, and we make mistake! So what... let's get on with it. Thank you for your help and contribution anyway.

Hi Groubite!
Fantastic avatar you have! Willy Mairesse is one of the most underrated F1Driver of the world, you know? Willy was one of the fastest Racedriver in his time!!

Thomas

groubite · #60

samoth wrote:Hi Groubite!
Fantastic avatar you have! Willy Mairesse is one of the most underrated F1Driver of the world, you know? Willy was one of the fastest Racedriver in his time!!

Thomas

Thank's samoth. Very much appreciated. I know. Willy was for sure one of the best of his time.

Jesper Hvid · #61

Jesper Hvid wrote:Collins in front of Tony Brooks' winning Vanwall (I have an interview with Brooks in which he recalls this accident - that could be capped if anyone wants to hear it):

And the driver crashing in the pic has a white helmet. Not that any further proof is needed, I just can't believe I didn't check that detail myself.