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Scheduled pitstops in F1

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Scheduled pitstops in F1

Post by White six » 1 month ago

Began in 1982 apart from Fangio I'm aware, but watching the late 70's and early 80's I think it's bizarre how they didn't begin earlier. Retirements and incidents are surprisingly dominated by tyre failures and wear is clearly slowing drivers hugely. I imagine that ground effect suddenly caused a lot more stress on tyres. Given that everything was advancing at pace (and that's the reason tyres were popping all over the place) I find it very surprising that nobody worked on tyre stops, even before refuelling was dreamt up.

I'm amused that at Silverstone 79 Murray is burbling away saying how impressive an unscheduled tyre stop was (it took somewhere between 30 seconds and half an hour, but Murray was very impressed) but James (on his first appearance with Murray) corrects him and says how much further advanced Indycar is at pit stops. Can't remember if it was the same race but in 79 Jabouille amusingly pulled his front wing off by running over the air line. Murray was still impressed ;)

Thoughts?

As an aside, does anyone remember a Brabham pit crew on Blue Peter? I think it was the low slung car, so that would date it. I think they did the four wheels in 6 seconds - things were gradually improving! Shame they were crap at everything else

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Post by Michael Ferner » 1 month ago

I've said it before, and I'll glady repeat it: changing wheels in nought-point-something belongs on the circus stage, not in F 1. One of the reasons I no longer watch.
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Post by JBT » 1 month ago

Why does it belong on the circus stage, Michael?
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Post by Michael Ferner » 1 month ago

Where else?
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Post by erwin greven » 1 month ago

Changing wheels in less than 2.0 seconds does belong in F1. It makes F1 an absolute phenomenal sport. It is a team sport. At some 275kmh a car drives 76m/s. Any 10th of a second makes a difference of 7,5 meters. Which is enough to pass a car.
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Post by White six » 1 month ago

Nobody interested in the question?

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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 month ago

White six wrote:
1 month ago
Nobody interested in the question?
Pitstops for tyres were very much part of racing in the fifties..... in fact Moss won in Argentina simply by having a lighter car, driving accordingly, and not stopping for tyres when all his opposition did. A brilliant bluff strategy where his opposition assumed he wouls also need to stop for tyres.

Dont forget back in those days , even the sixties and seventies pitstops for tyre changing were a long laborious job, with no multi person efforts... in those days it took a long time to even get the wheels off, having to hammer the spinners that locked the wheels. Even in the seventies a pit stop for tyres needed the best part of a minute stationary.

Here is an article about Moss in Argentina....
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... HbA9d.html

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Post by PTRACER » 1 month ago

White six wrote:
1 month ago
Nobody interested in the question?
If the question is "Why were there no scheduled pitstops before 1982?", it is relatively simple - they took too long to complete. 20 seconds stationary was a lot of time to lose then, as it is now. Add another 10-15 seconds slowing down for the pitlane and accelerating back out again. And then calculate another 1-2 seconds per lap lost for the next few laps for the tyres to get some heat in, since there were no tyre warmers. You would have to gain back those 40 seconds on track just to catch up with the guy ahead, who had decided to do the whole race on one set of tyres (since they were durable enough to make the distance back then). And that's just thinking about the 1970s, a pitstop in the 1950s and 1960s would have taken a lot longer.
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Post by Cheeveer » 1 month ago

If the fastest way to complete a 300km race is to make a pitstop for tyres and whatnot in the middle, I'm all for it.

Just philosphically speaking.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 1 month ago

PTRACER wrote:
1 month ago

If the question is "Why were there no scheduled pitstops before 1982?", it is relatively simple - they took too long to complete. 20 seconds stationary was a lot of time to lose then, as it is now. Add another 10-15 seconds slowing down for the pitlane and accelerating back out again. And then calculate another 1-2 seconds per lap lost for the next few laps for the tyres to get some heat in, since there were no tyre warmers. You would have to gain back those 40 seconds on track just to catch up with the guy ahead, who had decided to do the whole race on one set of tyres (since they were durable enough to make the distance back then). And that's just thinking about the 1970s, a pitstop in the 1950s and 1960s would have taken a lot longer.
As it happens re the time taken, I have just watched a replay of the 1982 Austrian GP on TV.... They (commentators) were very excited that Piquet and then Patrese stopped their Brabhams for fuel and tyres in just over 30 seconds each, with Murray talking of potentially sub 30 seconds stationary time to come in the future. Wonder if he ever thought tyre changes would be a 2 second stationary process!

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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 3 weeks ago

Interesting video outlining the evolution of pit stops over the years up to the current day. (A little bit about pit stops long before the days of F1.)
Amusingly tells of when (1950's) drivers would pit for tyres fuel and a glass of champagne or brandy to sharpen themselves up!



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Post by White six » 2 weeks ago

Nobody remember Brabham on Blue Peter?

Sadly not on youtube

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Post by White six » 2 weeks ago

PTRACER wrote:
1 month ago
White six wrote:
1 month ago
Nobody interested in the question?
If the question is "Why were there no scheduled pitstops before 1982?", it is relatively simple - they took too long to complete. 20 seconds stationary was a lot of time to lose then, as it is now. Add another 10-15 seconds slowing down for the pitlane and accelerating back out again. And then calculate another 1-2 seconds per lap lost for the next few laps for the tyres to get some heat in, since there were no tyre warmers. You would have to gain back those 40 seconds on track just to catch up with the guy ahead, who had decided to do the whole race on one set of tyres (since they were durable enough to make the distance back then). And that's just thinking about the 1970s, a pitstop in the 1950s and 1960s would have taken a lot longer.
Watching a pitstop at say Kyalami from the 80s looks absolutely terrifying now. They didn't used to bother with this slowing down bit :)

The capabilities to improve the stationary time was already there (see indycar) so i'm just surprised it wasn't worked on earlier.

Without pitlane limiters the overall stop could have been similar to today

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Post by Smuto » 2 weeks ago

There were scheduled pitstops before 1982, but they didn't realize the strategic advantage until that year. I watched a lot of late 70s races where the Ferraris had to stop mid-race because the Michelin tyres didn't last the whole race. And particularly I remember one time during the 1978 Spanish GP where they even performed a double pit-stop. So, while they did exist, it was considered a con, and no one bothered to improve the speed of the pitstops until Brabham.

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Post by White six » 2 weeks ago

Smuto wrote:
2 weeks ago
There were scheduled pitstops before 1982, but they didn't realize the strategic advantage until that year. I watched a lot of late 70s races where the Ferraris had to stop mid-race because the Michelin tyres didn't last the whole race. And particularly I remember one time during the 1978 Spanish GP where they even performed a double pit-stop. So, while they did exist, it was considered a con, and no one bothered to improve the speed of the pitstops until Brabham.
That's why I find it so surprising stops weren't worked on earlier. Ground effect was mashing the tyres; not just the michelins either. 1979 is tyre carnage.

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