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1976 Italian GP

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 21:07 pm
by Picci
Hi, I was going through some historical results when I realised that actually Ferrari ran three cars on Lauda's return: Regazzoni, Lauda and Reutemann. Could anyone explain to me how this was possible? Was it still allowed to run more than two cars during that time? How were the Constructors' points calculated back then? Did running three cars affect it? I think this must also be the last ever time Ferrari has run three cars in a race?

If my memory serves me well I believe McLaren did something similar in the late 70s when they ran Villeneuve but I thought he was under a 'separate' team..



Thanks! :)

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 07:34 am
by Everso Biggyballies
Picci wrote:
1 week ago
Hi, I was going through some historical results when I realised that actually Ferrari ran three cars on Lauda's return: Regazzoni, Lauda and Reutemann. Could anyone explain to me how this was possible? Was it still allowed to run more than two cars during that time? How were the Constructors' points calculated back then? Did running three cars affect it? I think this must also be the last ever time Ferrari has run three cars in a race?

If my memory serves me well I believe McLaren did something similar in the late 70s when they ran Villeneuve but I thought he was under a 'separate' team..



Thanks! :)
Yes it was possible up to I think 1981 when rules regarding all teams to be two cars were introduced, in the same way as single car teams were accepted.
As for the Constructor points, memory tells me only the leading car in each team scored points for any race in the Constructors championship at that time

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 08:17 am
by Vassago
I believe the two-car entries were only made mandatory in the early 90s since in 1991 we still had one-car teams (Fondmetal, Coloni).

Emilio de Villota was the last third-car entry who appeared in multiple GPs (March in 1982) then we had one-offs at the end of the season for test drivers (Jonathan Palmer/Williams/Brands Hatch 1983) and Philippe Streiff (Renault/Estoril 1984). The last official third car entry is Francois Hesnault for Renault in 1985 which carried the FOM-approved onboard camera at the Nurburgring (but the entry was ineligible for constuctors points).

The reliability was still a problem (sic!) in the 80s so if the third entries were allowed but were ineligible for points it made no sense for teams to field them in all honesty.

I'm not into rallying much but didn't WRC also mandate teams to pick the constructor-eligible entries before the event started not so long ago? This was to prevent tarmac-speciallists like Panizzi or Delecour from romping away? I seem to recall Panizzi winning Tour de Corse ca. 2000 where he only scored points for drivers' standings but not for Citroen in the constructors? It's been a while so I don't remember whether it was him or someone else?

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 20:47 pm
by Picci
Interesting info, many thanks! Fascinating to think that the structure for fielding two car entries wasn't formalised that long ago. And do you know which team was the last to field out only one official car for the entire season? Was it Minardi in 1985 or were there more recent examples?

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 02:36 am
by Everso Biggyballies
Picci wrote:
6 days ago
Interesting info, many thanks! Fascinating to think that the structure for fielding two car entries wasn't formalised that long ago. And do you know which team was the last to field out only one official car for the entire season? Was it Minardi in 1985 or were there more recent examples?
At the 1988 Australian GP, there were 5 single entries.....

AGS (Streiff)
Osella (with their model FA1L for Larini)
Rial (De Cesaris)
Coloni (Tarquini)
Dallara (Caffi)

1989 there was a single car entry for the season by Eurobrun (for Foitek.)

1990 there were single car entries for Colini (Gachot) and for Osella (Grouillard). Life ran a car until Japan and Australia (Brabham until San Marino, Giacomelli from then to Spain, their last race. (Spain was 3 races from the end of the season)

1991 Fondmetal (Grouillard) and Coloni (Chaves). Coloni were a no show in Spain,(again the race prior to Japan) but reappeared for Australia and Japan with Hattori.

1992 was all two car entries.

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 03:31 am
by PTRACER
Vassago wrote:
1 week ago
I believe the two-car entries were only made mandatory in the early 90s since in 1991 we still had one-car teams (Fondmetal, Coloni).

Emilio de Villota was the last third-car entry who appeared in multiple GPs (March in 1982) then we had one-offs at the end of the season for test drivers (Jonathan Palmer/Williams/Brands Hatch 1983) and Philippe Streiff (Renault/Estoril 1984). The last official third car entry is Francois Hesnault for Renault in 1985 which carried the FOM-approved onboard camera at the Nurburgring (but the entry was ineligible for constuctors points).
Wasn't Villota a private entry (and also F1's last private entrant)? He was sponsored by a Spanish bank, IIRC.

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 09:12 am
by Everso Biggyballies
PTRACER wrote:
6 days ago

Wasn't Villota a private entry (and also F1's last private entrant)? He was sponsored by a Spanish bank, IIRC.
Yeah, De Villota was a banker by profession, but he was sponsored in a privately entered Williams sponsored by Banco Occidental at the Spanish GP in 1982. He got knocked back because the car 'was not of his teams own construction'. I think his whole career was pretty much as a private entrant. Even his Iberian Airways McLaren was privately owned and entered. (He was from the Iberian Penisular in Spain)

LBT March was also his privately entered team.... that was a sort of agreement with March and Ram to get round the Concorde deal that stopped him being allowed to run the Williams. There was no works backing or support beyond the use of the car. That ran as a private entry for 5 races in 1982 but he failed to qualify / pre qualify in all.

He also ran in Aurora, some with Banco Occidental backing.

LBT March is indeed referred to as the last F1 privateer entry at the 1982 Dutch GP..

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 09:49 am
by Vassago
De Villota was also denied entry for the 1981 Spanish GP where he planned to drive the Williams FW07 he won the Aurora Championship the year before. The organizers tried to sneak him onto the entry list claiming the ATS of Slim Borgudd was entered too late but were warned off the race could lose the championship status just like the previous year so they backed down.

Imagine that controversy back in the pre-internet days. 1980 Spanish GP lost its championship status on the morning of Friday practice ;)

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am
by PTRACER
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
6 days ago
PTRACER wrote:
6 days ago

Wasn't Villota a private entry (and also F1's last private entrant)? He was sponsored by a Spanish bank, IIRC.
Yeah, De Villota was a banker by profession, but he was sponsored in a privately entered Williams sponsored by Banco Occidental at the Spanish GP in 1982. He got knocked back because the car 'was not of his teams own construction'. I think his whole career was pretty much as a private entrant. Even his Iberian Airways McLaren was privately owned and entered. (He was from the Iberian Penisular in Spain)
That must have cost him a f*** load of money back then. I am sure being a privateer wasn't cheap in the 1970s either, but this was right at the end of the period where you could build your own Grand Prix car, or buy last year's and race it in a national F1/Libre championship.

@Vassago - Oh yeah. Must have felt like the whole Grand Prix circus was about to implode at that point. Way worse than we experienced 10 years ago when teams were talking about breaking away and forming their own championship.

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 15:20 pm
by uechtel
Until during the 1970 it was possible more or less to anybody to buy or build a Formula 1 car and appear to the races, as long as he had come to terms with the race organizers (that is about starting money on first hand). Only in 1981 everything changed and F1 was no longer a mere racing formula, but became a "brand" and at the same time a "closed series", from now on based upon some kind of a franchise system. In the early following years theoretically "independents" would still be allowed, but only if the reserved places for the FOCA member teams would leave some places open, which in fact never happened. Spain 1981 came close, when FOCA member team ATS arrived late, so local independent driver de Villota tried to grasp the occasion, but on Ecclestone´s intervention finally ATS was reinstated and de Villota out.

During the eighties the choice between one or two car teams was still possible, and teams could even enter additional cars for some of the races (depending probably on negotiations with Bernie and/or the other 'franchise' members), but eligible for championship points were always only those cars (not drivers!) which had been entered for the whole season (that is why for example Gartner, Berger and Dalmas could not score in their debut seasons)



Back to Ferrari in 1976, indeed after Lauda´s accident I think the story was that they had already contracted Reutemann as replacement, so when Niki came back much earlier than expected (or maybe rather completely unexpected...) the pragmatic solution for the home race was to field three cars.

Entries for a third car were not unusual throughout the 1970ies, usually with a newcomer 'local hero' for a team´s home event or for the overseas races where prize money in Dollars was extraordinary for European standards and most of the teams took a T-car with them anyway. AFAIR the last "full season" three-car-team was BRM in 1974, who had run up to five cars in some races in 1972

Whether one, two, three or five cars per team, until 1981 only the best-placed car per make would score championship points. "Make" was the combination of chassis and engine manufacturer, therefore for example "Lotus-Ford" and "Lotus-BRM" counted as different makes in the 1967 manufacturers championship.

Re: 1976 Italian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 16:24 pm
by Everso Biggyballies
uechtel wrote:
3 hours ago

Back to Ferrari in 1976, indeed after Lauda´s accident I think the story was that they had already contracted Reutemann as replacement, so when Niki came back much earlier than expected (or maybe rather completely unexpected...) the pragmatic solution for the home race was to field three cars.
My memory seems to recall that yes Enzo had written Niki off as a returnee, contracted Reuteman as you said, but Niki's inclusion was from a pissed off Niki saying I have a contract to race a car provided by Ferrari and Enzo giving in to Nikis demands.

Im happy to be corrected.