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Anomalous Results

Racing events, drivers, cars or anything else from the past.
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Re: Anomalous Results

Post by Antonov » 9 months ago

Latest post of the previous page:

palmer 6th in Singapore 2017

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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 9 months ago

The only remarkable aspect of Palmer's career was the fact he dragged it out so long. The epitome of a pay driver journeyman.

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Post by Puhis » 9 months ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
9 months ago
...The relatively tiny Osca had brilliant handling and Moss with his co driver used that although they had troubles with brakes and to slow threw the car sideways into corners to scrub speed...
Bit off-topic, but a similar thing happened in Neste Rally Finland two weeks ago. Teemu Suninen lost his brakes on the last stage of day two, which (thankfully) was the short Harju super special.

No video was available, so I capped the onboard from WRC site and posted it under a dummy account because undoubtedly it'll be gone after a while.

You can hear how problems start at around 50 seconds in, and co-driver then blurts at 1:02 "Ei oo jarrui" ("No brakes.") So, Teemu improvised. It looks slow from the onboard, and it was certainly slower than he'd have been with brakes, but also a good example of car control that the top guys have.



As for the topic, I'm picking up some more old VM (Vauhdin Maailma) magazines today. See if I can find something interesting. Should be a good batch. :happy:
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Post by kals » 9 months ago

Antonov wrote:
9 months ago
palmer 6th in Singapore 2017
Palmer in F2 in 2010
Palmer in GP2 in 2014

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Post by kals » 9 months ago

Puhis wrote:
9 months ago
Very interesting topic, Paul. A few examples immediately spring to mind from the world of rallying:

Henri Toivonen won the 1980 RAC Rally with a Group 2 Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. This was during an era when Group 4 cars were thought of as "unbeatable." He was also the last person to win the RAC Rally with a two-wheel drive car; 1981 onwards saw the rise of Audi Quattros and later other four-wheel drive vehicles to the top of rallying leaderboards. Also, Henri was by far from a favourite back then, as he was just a 24-year old driver and still best known as the son of Pauli Toivonen. Of course, that would change in the years to come, before his career was tragically cut short in that fateful day at Corsica.

Another perhaps unexpected result was Philippe Bugalski achieving two overall victories in 1999. Surprising they were for two reasons: Firstly, Bugalski had never won a WRC event before, and secondly, they were achieved with a front-wheel drive Citroën Xsara Kit Car! To top it off, those events were triumphed in succession: First Rally Catalunya in late April, and then Tour de Corse in early May. Granted, both were tarmac rallies, hence the "perhaps" part: The nimbler kit car suit those tight and twisty mountain roads far better than the heavier, bulkier four-wheel drive WRC machinery of the time. It also caused quite an uproar at the time, as some of the teams were unhappy to see a kit car taking precious points away from the championship contenders. F2-classed vehicles weren't at the time eligible for them anyway, so it was seen as "unnecessary."

Not sure if the Lancia/Walter Röhrl masterclass at 1983 Acropolis Rally should count. On one hand, the 037 was a known quantity and one of the most successful rally cars of its era. But they were faced off against the four-wheel drive Audis, which were heavy favourites leading up to the event which would take place on narrow and extremely treacherous Greek gravel roads. The result, therefore, was certainly a surprise. But an anomaly? Well, not quite. Still worthy of a mention, in my opinion.
How about Pentti Airikkala winning the 1989 Lombard RAC Rally? It was a pretty sublime performance yet his only World Championship rally (and only WRC win) that year having I believe contested the British Rally Championship.

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Post by Puhis » 9 months ago

kals wrote:
9 months ago
Puhis wrote:
9 months ago
Very interesting topic, Paul. A few examples immediately spring to mind from the world of rallying:

Henri Toivonen won the 1980 RAC Rally with a Group 2 Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. This was during an era when Group 4 cars were thought of as "unbeatable." He was also the last person to win the RAC Rally with a two-wheel drive car; 1981 onwards saw the rise of Audi Quattros and later other four-wheel drive vehicles to the top of rallying leaderboards. Also, Henri was by far from a favourite back then, as he was just a 24-year old driver and still best known as the son of Pauli Toivonen. Of course, that would change in the years to come, before his career was tragically cut short in that fateful day at Corsica.

Another perhaps unexpected result was Philippe Bugalski achieving two overall victories in 1999. Surprising they were for two reasons: Firstly, Bugalski had never won a WRC event before, and secondly, they were achieved with a front-wheel drive Citroën Xsara Kit Car! To top it off, those events were triumphed in succession: First Rally Catalunya in late April, and then Tour de Corse in early May. Granted, both were tarmac rallies, hence the "perhaps" part: The nimbler kit car suit those tight and twisty mountain roads far better than the heavier, bulkier four-wheel drive WRC machinery of the time. It also caused quite an uproar at the time, as some of the teams were unhappy to see a kit car taking precious points away from the championship contenders. F2-classed vehicles weren't at the time eligible for them anyway, so it was seen as "unnecessary."

Not sure if the Lancia/Walter Röhrl masterclass at 1983 Acropolis Rally should count. On one hand, the 037 was a known quantity and one of the most successful rally cars of its era. But they were faced off against the four-wheel drive Audis, which were heavy favourites leading up to the event which would take place on narrow and extremely treacherous Greek gravel roads. The result, therefore, was certainly a surprise. But an anomaly? Well, not quite. Still worthy of a mention, in my opinion.
How about Pentti Airikkala winning the 1989 Lombard RAC Rally? It was a pretty sublime performance yet his only World Championship rally (and only WRC win) that year having I believe contested the British Rally Championship.
That, too. Only reason I didn't include Mr. Airikkala was because even though he was not a full time WRC driver, he did have a long history in RAC Rally. As you mentioned, he contested in British Rally Championship, and in addition was a common sight in the Swedish and Finnish WRC events.

He was (and still is!) the oldest driver to win their first rally, being 44 years old. But, I wouldn't count it as an anomaly, more like something that was a long time coming and finally happened. After all, Airikkala had five podiums in his career prior to 1989, and knew the roads very well.

I'll go through my stack (a luggage full of!) magazines that I just spent 1½ hours rolling across Helsinki region using public transport. There's a lot of stuff from 80s and early 90s, so the race report might be there. Would be very interesting if that were the case. Sadly, I don't have a scanner - yet.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 9 months ago

Talking of WRC anomalous results....

1998 Rally GB (Wales?) rings a few bells for a Hill like Hungary outcome. I remember watching it on TV. Doubt it was live but it was before I had internet so the outcome would have been unknown to me at the time of watching. I vividly reemember Carlos throwing hids helmet at the car after trying in vain to get the car to fire up

It resulted in Sainz not only retiring from the rally lead 300 metres from the finish but with it he lost the World Title as a result. (It was the season finale and a win would have given Sainz the title with pre event leader Makknen having made an early error and crashed ou)t. All the other runners of note also retired. Richard Burns eventually inherited the win with Juha Kankkhunen 2nd
At the start of the event, a small error on Makinen’s behalf forced the Finn to retire due to damage. All Sainz had to do to win was simply cruise to the end of each stage for a comfortable win. By his own admission, Sainz said that all he had to do was drive at “sometimes not even 20 per cent” to win the championship. Except he didn’t.

A mere 300 metres from the final stage of the rally at Margam Park, the engine in Sainz’s Toyota gave out. Despite frantic attempts by Sainz and co-driver Luis Moya to get it running again, the car wouldn’t start and the title went to Makinen.


Retirements of note

SS7 #1 Mäkinen Tommi - Mannisenmäki Risto icon Mitsubishi Lancer Evo V (R66 MRE)
Mitsubishi Ralliart tyre A8 Accident damage
SS20 #3 McRae Colin - Grist Nicky icon Subaru Impreza S4 WRC '98 (R14 WRC)
555 Subaru WRT tyre A8 Engine
SS22 #4 McRae Alister - Senior David icon Subaru Impreza S4 WRC '98 (R15 WRC)
555 Subaru WRT tyre A8 Accident
SS28 #5 Sainz Carlos - Moya Luis icon Toyota Corolla WRC (K-AM 8020)
Toyota Castrol Team tyre A8 Engine
SS21 #6 Auriol Didier - Giraudet Denis icon Toyota Corolla WRC (K-AM 841)
Toyota Castrol Team tyre A8M Clutch
SS11 #11 Grönholm Marcus - Rautiainen Timo icon Toyota Corolla WRC (K-AM 717)
Toyota Castrol Team E ngine
SS14 #12 Vatanen Ari - Pons Fabrizia icon Subaru Impreza S4 WRC '98 (P7 WRC)
555 Subaru WRT tyre A8 electrical
SS15 #45 Solberg Petter - Menkerud Cato icon Toyota Celica GT-Four (DF 85928)
tyre A8 Accident

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Post by Puhis » 9 months ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
9 months ago
Talking of WRC anomalous results....

1998 Rally GB (Wales?) rings a few bells for a Hill like Hungary outcome. I remember watching it on TV. Doubt it was live but it was before I had internet so the outcome would have been unknown to me at the time of watching. I vividly reemember Carlos throwing hids helmet at the car after trying in vain to get the car to fire up

It resulted in Sainz not only retiring from the rally lead 300 metres from the finish but with it he lost the World Title as a result. (It was the season finale and a win would have given Sainz the title with pre event leader Makknen having made an early error and crashed ou)t. All the other runners of note also retired. Richard Burns eventually inherited the win with Juha Kankkunen 2nd
At the start of the event, a small error on Makinen’s behalf forced the Finn to retire due to damage. All Sainz had to do to win was simply cruise to the end of each stage for a comfortable win. By his own admission, Sainz said that all he had to do was drive at “sometimes not even 20 per cent” to win the championship. Except he didn’t.

A mere 300 metres from the final stage of the rally at Margam Park, the engine in Sainz’s Toyota gave out. Despite frantic attempts by Sainz and co-driver Luis Moya to get it running again, the car wouldn’t start and the title went to Makinen.

It was actually not a driver error. They ran a historic rally earlier using some of the same stages. One of the cars had spilled oil in the corner where Mäkinen crashed. There were no warnings or anything, and he approached the turn normally, slid, and crashed.

Skip to 1:28 in case you don't want to hear the introduction.



As evidenced later in the video, Tommi heard the news of Carlos' retirement over the phone, mid-interview for Finnish TV. It even starts with the words "Well, Tommi, it is now clear that Carlos Sainz is the world champion. What were your feelings while waiting for the confirmation?", which is... hilarious in hindsight. Bless the reporter who told the cameraman to keep shooting.

Here is the full interview:



Tommi's immediate reaction and the following lines have since been deeply embedded in the Finnish motorsports lore.
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 9 months ago

Puhis wrote:
9 months ago

It was actually not a driver error. They ran a historic rally earlier using some of the same stages. One of the cars had spilled oil in the corner where Mäkinen crashed. There were no warnings or anything, and he approached the turn normally, slid, and crashed.
Yes it was oil.... the cement dust spread on the track is plainly obvious in the video. At such an early stager of such a critical rally one would expect aadriver of Tommi's experience to take cement dust as a sign of a potential hazard. Yes it was unlucky that it happened. But I think an error of judgement on Tommi's part was clearly a factor,

The point of the post was more about the finish (rather than about the Finnish) :wink:

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Post by Puhis » 8 months ago

kals wrote:
9 months ago
How about Pentti Airikkala winning the 1989 Lombard RAC Rally? It was a pretty sublime performance yet his only World Championship rally (and only WRC win) that year having I believe contested the British Rally Championship.
Good news:

The batch includes VM 12/89, which has extensive coverage from the RAC Rally.

Bad news:

I still don't have a scanner.

But if you're interested, I shall include it among the first of my scanlations, along with scanning the Jyväskylä guides from 1982 to 1990. And a pacenote school, something I'm interesting in and so are many of my RBR-addicted friends. Should be good content, that.

With that said, the WRC race reports are seemingly translated, with originals written by none other than Mr. Martin Holmes himself. At least he is credited atop. The RAC one also includes a Pentti Airikkala interview. The Finnish version does include news on Finnish privateers and such on race results as well as in the reports, but the main content probably doesn't differ all that much from the original. Too bad I couldn't find information on which magazine(s) featured the original Holmes race report. Would've been interesting to compare those.
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