Damon Hill says "Schumacher had unfair advantage"

[LaraCroft2016]

Well, he talks about this in his book, the years of Schumacher's dominance with ferrari, "Schumacher had some kind of unfair advantage and the world was wrong" what do you think it was that unfair advantage?

[Everso Biggyballies]

Well, the close commercial arrangement between Ferrari and Bridge stone plus the limitless testing ensured Bridgestone made tyres for all based on Ferraris requirements.

Other controversial aspects such as the unwavering #1 position in the team, by no means illegal in basis of he was contractually the undisputed #1 with the likes of Barrichello ordered to allow Michael to pass.... it was a team decision, although clearly their strategies often took the piss out of the no team order rules. But there are always ways to circumvent team orders that all teams were at times guilty of.

Let us not forget that a lot of Ferrari's dominance was not down to Michael alone, rather the result of a super strong team of individuals assembled with a no budget limitation approach, from design through to the engine builders, engineers, strategists et al, assembled by Jean Todt. It was these combined skills within the team that allowed Michael to maximise his undoubted talent.

But, most of all the collaboration between Ferrari and Bridgestone gave enormous advantage to Ferrari, one certainly not enjoyed by or offered to other Bridgestone users who had to in effect adaprt their cars to the tyres. Ferrari enjoyed tyres created for their car.

[John]

I thought this would be another rant on Benetton using traction control in 1994.

[MonteCristo]

More talent.

[Antonov]

it still angers me how Barrichello was ordered to move over for Schumacher in Austria 2001.

[kals]

I thought this would be another rant on Benetton using traction control in 1994.

How a Pembrey test stoked traction control suspicions
by Web Editor on 7th February 2018

Dickie Stanford and Jonathan Williams describe, for the first time, how the Benetton F1 team aroused suspicion that it was using traction control, from the Motor Sport podcast in association with Mercedes-Benz

Controversy has raged for nearly 25 years over the 1994 Formula 1 season, as Benetton was accused of using traction control on its way to the title. Dickie Stanford, general manager of Williams Heritage and former race mechanic to Nigel Mansell, and Jonathan Williams, who oversees the Heritage department, told Motor Sport that Benetton may have given the game away at Pembrey that year.

“Ayrton [Senna] was convinced that [Benetton] was doing something, and we [at Williams] were as well,” said Stanford. "I know the engine note was recorded and everything, [but] I don't know whether [Williams] took it to the FIA, I don't know. I know they recorded it because we still record engine notes now.”

“You can tell a lot [from engine notes],” said Jonathan Williams. “I got a job as a gofer in 1994 for a Formula 3000 team called Madgwick that year, which was running two cars in the International series and one car in the British [series]. We did a couple of preseason tests and we went down to Pembrey sometime in the March or April of 1994 and we were there for two days on a Thursday or Friday and somebody from Pembrey told us: “Uh, Benetton is here tomorrow because it needs somewhere [to test].

“It must have been in between the [Pacific] Grand Prix at Aida, the race at which Ayrton observed what he considered was traction control, (when he was when he was forced to watch from the race room after the collision at the start) and Imola, because it was JJ Lehto coming back to replace Jos Verstappen for the third race. (It was Lehto’s race seat – he'd injured himself preseason).

“So we were at Pembrey in our trucks, camped out on the pit apron, and Benetton did turn up that night and went into the scrutineering hut in the centre of the track. So, apart from knowing there were two teams on site, you weren't seeing each other. On Friday, somebody from Benetton who I didn't know came down to us and said, “What's your program for the afternoon? We'd like to do some start practice and you're on the pitstraight, so we'd like to do some start practice right in front of you.”

“We said, “Actually, we've got a bit of a [free] slot then,” and so we all went on the pitwall and watched it. I'm not going to name names but a Madgwick mechanic, who then went on to be a hugely successful systems engineer for two Formula 1 teams, both during their championship-winning periods, said to me: “Just look at the tire marks and listen.” He was educating me on traction control.

“What really, in hindsight, rammed it home to me was when an ex-Williams employee (again nameless) who was at Benetton came down and watched, and then saw me, and very quickly scuttled back. They stopped start-testing, knowing that they were in front of somebody from Williams.”

“I've never told that story in public before, but it was 20-plus years ago and there are enough people actually saying that the car was equipped with traction control for me to not feel concerned about that story being out there. I do remember that day at Pembrey and I do remember it literally being as close as that road is out there; just [Benetton] doing start practice in front of us, not realising that there was somebody from Williams present.”

[kals]

it still angers me how Barrichello was ordered to move over for Schumacher in Austria 2001.

[kals]

Well, the close commercial arrangement between Ferrari and Bridge stone plus the limitless testing ensured Bridgestone made tyres for all based on Ferraris requirements.

Other controversial aspects such as the unwavering #1 position in the team, by no means illegal in basis of he was contractually the undisputed #1 with the likes of Barrichello ordered to allow Michael to pass.... it was a team decision, although clearly their strategies often took the piss out of the no team order rules. But there are always ways to circumvent team orders that all teams were at times guilty of.

Let us not forget that a lot of Ferrari's dominance was not down to Michael alone, rather the result of a super strong team of individuals assembled with a no budget limitation approach, from design through to the engine builders, engineers, strategists et al, assembled by Jean Todt. It was these combined skills within the team that allowed Michael to maximise his undoubted talent.

But, most of all the collaboration between Ferrari and Bridgestone gave enormous advantage to Ferrari, one certainly not enjoyed by or offered to other Bridgestone users who had to in effect adaprt their cars to the tyres. Ferrari enjoyed tyres created for their car.

As has been said, all of this was legal however it stretched the sporting sense of what was being done.

Additionally there was the treatment Ferrari and Schumacher received from the FIA and race meeting stewards. Whenever there was a 50/50 situation, Schumacher and Ferrari would receive preferential treatment. Whenever there was a situation with Schumacher at clear fault, no punishment. Plus there was the Ferrari-veto which still exists today.

[John]

I thought this would be another rant on Benetton using traction control in 1994.

How a Pembrey test stoked traction control suspicions
by Web Editor on 7th February 2018

Dickie Stanford and Jonathan Williams describe, for the first time, how the Benetton F1 team aroused suspicion that it was using traction control, from the Motor Sport podcast in association with Mercedes-Benz

Controversy has raged for nearly 25 years over the 1994 Formula 1 season, as Benetton was accused of using traction control on its way to the title. Dickie Stanford, general manager of Williams Heritage and former race mechanic to Nigel Mansell, and Jonathan Williams, who oversees the Heritage department, told Motor Sport that Benetton may have given the game away at Pembrey that year.

“Ayrton [Senna] was convinced that [Benetton] was doing something, and we [at Williams] were as well,” said Stanford. "I know the engine note was recorded and everything, [but] I don't know whether [Williams] took it to the FIA, I don't know. I know they recorded it because we still record engine notes now.”

“You can tell a lot [from engine notes],” said Jonathan Williams. “I got a job as a gofer in 1994 for a Formula 3000 team called Madgwick that year, which was running two cars in the International series and one car in the British [series]. We did a couple of preseason tests and we went down to Pembrey sometime in the March or April of 1994 and we were there for two days on a Thursday or Friday and somebody from Pembrey told us: “Uh, Benetton is here tomorrow because it needs somewhere [to test].

“It must have been in between the [Pacific] Grand Prix at Aida, the race at which Ayrton observed what he considered was traction control, (when he was when he was forced to watch from the race room after the collision at the start) and Imola, because it was JJ Lehto coming back to replace Jos Verstappen for the third race. (It was Lehto’s race seat – he'd injured himself preseason).

“So we were at Pembrey in our trucks, camped out on the pit apron, and Benetton did turn up that night and went into the scrutineering hut in the centre of the track. So, apart from knowing there were two teams on site, you weren't seeing each other. On Friday, somebody from Benetton who I didn't know came down to us and said, “What's your program for the afternoon? We'd like to do some start practice and you're on the pitstraight, so we'd like to do some start practice right in front of you.”

“We said, “Actually, we've got a bit of a [free] slot then,” and so we all went on the pitwall and watched it. I'm not going to name names but a Madgwick mechanic, who then went on to be a hugely successful systems engineer for two Formula 1 teams, both during their championship-winning periods, said to me: “Just look at the tire marks and listen.” He was educating me on traction control.

“What really, in hindsight, rammed it home to me was when an ex-Williams employee (again nameless) who was at Benetton came down and watched, and then saw me, and very quickly scuttled back. They stopped start-testing, knowing that they were in front of somebody from Williams.”

“I've never told that story in public before, but it was 20-plus years ago and there are enough people actually saying that the car was equipped with traction control for me to not feel concerned about that story being out there. I do remember that day at Pembrey and I do remember it literally being as close as that road is out there; just [Benetton] doing start practice in front of us, not realising that there was somebody from Williams present.”

Stumbled over that piece as well - great read.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Thanks @Kals for the piece on Benetton Traction Control. I was obviously aware of the beliefs and the near certainty of guilt, but I have never found or read an eye witness 'guilty as charged' account. Any doubt the matter may have held in my mind are now quashed.

[Antonov]

let's be honest, all this talk about traction control... and what would it be worth over a lap? a tenth? two tenths perhaps?

[erwin greven]

a lot. Adrian Newey explained once how the "traction control" worked. I can't remember it exactly but what it did was measuring the airspeed difference between the airflow through the air intake and the air speed outside. If there was a difference the engine would slow down.

[John]

let's be honest, all this talk about traction control... and what would it be worth over a lap? a tenth? two tenths perhaps?

Two tenths takes a lot of resources and money to make up for when the other teams are using illegal systems.

[kals]

let's be honest, all this talk about traction control... and what would it be worth over a lap? a tenth? two tenths perhaps?

And I quote...

[Everso Biggyballies]

Added to their cheat (re)fuel system ..... Anyway the topic is more related to the Ferrari years