Unwanted drivers

Racing events, drivers, cars or anything else from the past.
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Antonov
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Unwanted drivers

#1

Post by Antonov »

Some drivers were really not much loved by the team they drove for -rightly or wrongly-.

I am thinking of Ricardo Rossett at Tyrrell (Craig Pollock had his reservations), Carlos Reutemann at Ferrari, and more recently Jolyon Palmer at Renault.

Pretty sure there are others I cant think of right now, so lets help me out :thumbsup:
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#2

Post by kals »

JV at BAR once Pollock had gone, then again at Sauber / BMW.

Schumi at Ferrari in 2006, then the Scuderia did the same with Raikkonen in 2009 and with Alonso in 2014.

Heidfeld at Renault/Lotus in 2011.
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#3

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Alonso at McLaren Pt1.
Montoya at McLaren
Webber at Williams

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#4

Post by erwin greven »

Lauda at Ferrari in 1977.
Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
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#5

Post by kals »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago Alonso at McLaren Pt1.
Montoya at McLaren
Webber at Williams
I'm not so sure about these three.

We know about the Alonso issues with McLaren, but the team always wanted him. It was his action of threatening the team following the Hungarian GP incident that meant his tenure became untenable. With Montoya, he got frustrated with the team and vice versa. Montoya got fired for signing with Ganassi without consulting with McLaren.

Webber is something entirely different. In fact, Webber wanted out of Williams and was very unpleasant to the team in his final year. When he signed Williams were still supported by BMW. After Williams refused to accept BMW's option to purchase the team, they were dropped and in 2006 Webber didn't get with Cosworth what he felt he was entitled to.
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#6

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Yes, but ultimately it was Williams who declined to take up Mark's option. Fortunately for Mark the Red Bull seat became available late in the season, which ultimately turned out to be a fabulous move.

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#7

Post by Antonov »

kals wrote:Montoya got fired for signing with Ganassi without consulting with McLaren.
really? I didn't know about that.

I thought it was a accumulation of incidents causing frustration with the management, with this being the final straw:
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#8

Post by Antonov »

erwin greven wrote: 6 years ago Lauda at Ferrari in 1977.
presumably still the bad taste after retiring from the Japanese GP in 1976?
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#9

Post by kals »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago Yes, but ultimately it was Williams who declined to take up Mark's option. Fortunately for Mark the Red Bull seat became available late in the season, which ultimately turned out to be a fabulous move.
I still disagree that Webber was 'unwanted' by Williams. Not taking up a driver's option would mean this thread would be awash with hundreds of drivers. Webber's contract ran it's course and he went back to Milton Keynes.
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#10

Post by kals »

Antonov wrote: 6 years ago
kals wrote:Montoya got fired for signing with Ganassi without consulting with McLaren.
really? I didn't know about that.

I thought it was a accumulation of incidents causing frustration with the management, with this being the final straw:
That incident was pivotal but not the reason Monty got fired. Both team and driver had a disappointing 2006 and were frustrated with each other. After this incident, Monty went and signed for Ganassi for 2007 and made his announcement with a press conference, having not consulted with a McLaren leadership first. That press conference was taken very badly by Ron Dennis, who subsequently suspended Monty from the next face (France I think) and a short while later Monty was released from his 2006 contract which allowed him to make his first NASCAR starts later in the year.

The incident itself has been blamed on Montoya, and while he did tag Raikkonen, Kimi isn't be blameless. Going into T2 Raikkonen was much slower than every other car around him. It wasn't just Montoya taking too much speed into T2, it was about 3-4 others cars travelling much faster than a slower Kimi. You can see that on the replay.
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#11

Post by Puhis »

kals wrote: 6 years ago
Antonov wrote: 6 years ago
kals wrote:Montoya got fired for signing with Ganassi without consulting with McLaren.
really? I didn't know about that.

I thought it was a accumulation of incidents causing frustration with the management, with this being the final straw:
That incident was pivotal but not the reason Monty got fired. Both team and driver had a disappointing 2006 and were frustrated with each other. After this incident, Monty went and signed for Ganassi for 2007 and made his announcement with a press conference, having not consulted with a McLaren leadership first. That press conference was taken very badly by Ron Dennis, who subsequently suspended Monty from the next face (France I think) and a short while later Monty was released from his 2006 contract which allowed him to make his first NASCAR starts later in the year.

The incident itself has been blamed on Montoya, and while he did tag Raikkonen, Kimi isn't be blameless. Going into T2 Raikkonen was much slower than every other car around him. It wasn't just Montoya taking too much speed into T2, it was about 3-4 others cars travelling much faster than a slower Kimi. You can see that on the replay.
Yeah, there's one guy squeezing him and he has to lift on exit, then another guy alongside. Plus he's on cold tyres. There's absolutely no way he can attain anything close to a normal speed, considering both his entry and mid-corner were hindered. So, Kimi does the reasonable thing and goes carefully into the second part of the corner. Gets tagged by Montoya, who should not only be well aware of the situation developing but also still has time to react. He doesn't. Crash.

0% on Kimi.
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#12

Post by Antonov »

hear hear

As far as I recall, there was absolutely no announcement of Montoya-Ganassi prior to him being sidelined for France.
Alternative fact perhaps?

as for other unwanted drivers (or relationships with big expectations and little results)
- Alessandro Zanardi at Williams in 1999
- Michael Andretti at McLaren in 2003

Jenson Button wasn't exactly a popular chap at BAR after wanting to go back to Williams for 2005.
But that's more a case of an unwanted team.
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#13

Post by DoubleFart »

Jenson Button by Ralf Schumacher at Williams. Really got his knickers in a twist about Jense.
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#14

Post by kals »

Puhis wrote: 6 years agoYeah, there's one guy squeezing him and he has to lift on exit, then another guy alongside. Plus he's on cold tyres. There's absolutely no way he can attain anything close to a normal speed, considering both his entry and mid-corner were hindered. So, Kimi does the reasonable thing and goes carefully into the second part of the corner. Gets tagged by Montoya, who should not only be well aware of the situation developing but also still has time to react. He doesn't. Crash.

0% on Kimi.
Kimi wasn't squeezed. Yes the BMW is there but it is far enough ahead to not impede Kimi, especially when you consider that it is almost alongside Barrichello. And don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Kimi. But Kimi has a responsibility because of his sudden speed reduction and Monty was unfairly maligned for the incident. At the end of the day though it was a racing incident.
Antonov wrote: 6 years agoAs far as I recall, there was absolutely no announcement of Montoya-Ganassi prior to him being sidelined for France.
Alternative fact perhaps?
Try again... :roll:
Autosport.com wrote:Montoya switches to NASCAR with Ganassi
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, July 9th 2006, 14:35 GMT

Juan Pablo Montoya has decided to turn his back on Formula One at the end of the season and will make a switch to NASCAR next year, autosport.com can reveal.

The McLaren driver's future has been the subject of intense speculation for months, as it appeared his options to remain in Grand Prix racing were narrowing.

But Montoya has now inked a deal with Chip Ganassi Racing to compete in Nextel Cup as of next year - and autosport.com understands that it is a long term one.

Montoya enjoyed a successful relationship with Ganassi when he captured the 1999 CART championship and the 2000 Indianapolis 500 crown.

Recently Ganassi said he would be interested in recruiting the Colombian, but it had been thought that this was for his Indy Racing League outfit.

However, sources close to Montoya have revealed that talks between the driver and his former team boss have focused on a move to NASCAR, with Chip Ganassi Racing having been looking for a replacement for Casey Mears.

Those talks have culminated this weekend in a deal being signed, with Montoya taking over the No. 42 car from the start of next season.

Although Montoya has never raced a NASCAR, he did spend some time behind the wheel of Jeff Gordon's Monte Carlo during a promotional activity at Indianapolis in June 2003.

Sources close to Montoya have indicated that Montoya became excited by the option of NASCAR when it was presented to him last month. "He's just glad to be going back home," said one source.

Montoya said recently that he was far from concerned about his future in motor racing - and admitted that 'anything was possible' in terms of where he would be racing.

"Well I am quite relaxed," said Montoya when asked about his feelings on getting a deal for next year. "I am looking at my options and we will see what happens. I am not too worried about anything. Nothing is sure but I am pretty happy."

When asked if he was confident he would remain in F1, Montoya said: "I don't know. I am looking at all my options and we will see what happens.

"I am not too worried about it. I am trying to put myself in the best position of where I am going to be happiest."

Ganassi was unavailable for comment about the deal, but speaking recently he said that his target for Mears' replacement would be in simply signing the fastest guy possible.

"You have to take the best guy that is available to you, whoever he is, wherever he is, whatever he is," he said. "There are a lot of teams looking for drivers.

"Am I happy about this? No. Am I happy to be in this situation? No. Is it a disaster? No, it's not a disaster, either. It's just part of the business."

Single seater drivers have had mixed success in making the switch to NASCAR.

Former Champ Car champion Jimmy Vasser competed in a few Busch Series races before calling it quits, as did Paul Tracy who subsequently signed a five-year contract extension to remain in single seaters.

Michel Jourdain Jr. left Champ Car for NASCAR but failed to make an impact in Busch or the Truck Series.

The one exception to the rule is former IRL champion Tony Stewart, who has two Nextel Cup championships to his name and shares the same kind of aggression on the track that is a hallmark of Montoya.

Only last weekend, former world champion Jacques Villeneuve said that he would consider a switch to NASCAR once his F1 career was over.

"Going to NASCAR might not be such a bad career move because it's the most exciting race series in the U.S. and it's a very different discipline to F1," he told the Red Bulletin.

"I would not consider it a step down. Would I consider a move to stock cars? I would."
Autosport.com wrote:Montoya leaves McLaren, de la Rosa to race
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, July 11th 2006, 09:11 GMT

Juan Pablo Montoya has parted company with McLaren, just a few days after he announced that he was making the switch to NASCAR next year.

A statement issued by McLaren on Tuesday morning claimed that the team and driver had reached a mutual agreement for him to step down immediately. He will be replaced by Spaniard Pedro de la Rosa, who last raced for the team at last year's Bahrain Grand Prix.

Montoya will now spend time at home in Miami with his family to finalise his preparations for his switch to NASCAR. Future boss Chip Ganassi had made it clear that he wanted Montoya to compete in some NASCAR Busch races this season.

Speaking in the McLaren statement, Montoya said: "I know that it will be a tough transition but I'm really excited about the opportunity to move into the NASCAR championship. I have enjoyed most of my time in Formula One and I'm grateful for this opportunity to settle my personal life and concentrate on my future career."

There were suggestions in the Spanish press on Tuesday that Montoya's parting with McLaren was the result of a breach of contract caused by the Colombian announcing his NASCAR deal without his current team's knowledge.

McLaren boss Ron Dennis said: "Juan Pablo is an exciting driver and immensely likeable character who will undoubtedly make a successful transition to the NASCAR scene.

"We have agreed that with so many things happening in Juan Pablo's life right now, he should take some time out of the car and prepare professionally and personally for the future."

The news brings an end to Montoya's Formula One career after 94 starts. He won seven races and scored a total of 30 podiums.

McLaren could not confirm that de la Rosa would be in the car for the rest of the season.
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#15

Post by erwin greven »

Antonov wrote: 6 years ago as for other unwanted drivers (or relationships with big expectations and little results)

- Michael Andretti at McLaren in 2003
1993?
Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
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