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1967 Monaco - Bandini's fatal crash

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caneparo
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Re: 1967 Monaco - Bandini's fatal crash

Post by caneparo » 3 years ago

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vontrips61 wrote:
ascari66 wrote:
Why when bandini is second, Hill being laggard leaves Hulme spend quiet , however when Bandini approaches , there is clearly Hill accelerates your machine, making it difficult to pass ? Mrs. Margarita can not blame only Brabham for throwing oil on the entire track , I think we have many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle... :down:
In 1964 in Mexico GP there was an incident . Hill needed the third to be champion, all is well when on lap 31 Bandini hits your car in harpin , ending his chance of the championship. With this result John Surtees (bandini mate) was the champion by one single point. not believe it was revenge, but things like that we never forget ...
I've read an interview to Bandin's widow where she said that despite Hill was very disappointed for the infamouse mexican GP accident because he thought Bandini did it on purpose, he never showed a bad attitude regarding Bandini. In fact the only thing he did was sending him a book for a driving licence as a chrsitmas gift; just british humor, nothing evil.
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Post by PTRACER » 3 years ago

caneparo wrote:
vontrips61 wrote:
ascari66 wrote:
Why when bandini is second, Hill being laggard leaves Hulme spend quiet , however when Bandini approaches , there is clearly Hill accelerates your machine, making it difficult to pass ? Mrs. Margarita can not blame only Brabham for throwing oil on the entire track , I think we have many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle... :down:
In 1964 in Mexico GP there was an incident . Hill needed the third to be champion, all is well when on lap 31 Bandini hits your car in harpin , ending his chance of the championship. With this result John Surtees (bandini mate) was the champion by one single point. not believe it was revenge, but things like that we never forget ...
I've read an interview to Bandin's widow where she said that despite Hill was very disappointed for the infamouse mexican GP accident because he thought Bandini did it on purpose, he never showed a bad attitude regarding Bandini. In fact the only thing he did was sending him a book for a driving licence as a chrsitmas gift; just british humor, nothing evil.
This, I believe?

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Post by 330tr » 3 years ago

Min 0.38


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Post by PTRACER » 3 years ago

ulibarra wrote:From the video is clear that Bandini is not enormously overspeed. The speed is quite normal, perhaps a bit too fast like someone is going to the limit; anyway it's not the result of someone that was totally out and "forgot" to brake.
If things were as Borsari said, and Bandini was in 5th gear because he "forgot" to shift down, the Ferrari should arrive at a so enormous speed to miss completeley the chicane.
Instead, he is at a normal speed on a normal line. He just loses the rear for a moment, and it's fast to correct it: another point that refutes the idea of an exausted driver that dosn't know where he is.
Bandini was lucid, answering to box's signals, and pushing the car to its limit to close on Hulme.
I think he had simply the worst luck.
Bandini may have forgotten to shift down from 5th, but that doesn't mean he forgot to brake. Also, I don't think being in 5th would cause a problem, as the car would be MORE stable, not less stable.

However, I am intrigued by the idea that he lost the rear of the car entering the chicane, which would explain why the front left wheel touched the barrier:
330tr wrote:Here a slow motion of the moment it touches:

What do we think? I think it does look like the rear is sliding a little, but it's far from clear.

An interesting fact - When Bandini crashed on Lap 81, only 7 cars were left in the race. Some of the slower cars were so far behind, that even on lap 85, Bandini was still classified in 5th place. On lap 86 he dropped to 7th and it wasn't until Lap 92 that Bandini was officially classified as a "non-finisher".
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Post by 330tr » 3 years ago

Image

It'is not even certain that it was in 5th gear..

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Post by vontrips61 » 3 years ago

Bandini seems to be out of the conventional line , the collision was imminent

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Post by ulibarra » 3 years ago

PTRACER wrote:Bandini may have forgotten to shift down from 5th, but that doesn't mean he forgot to brake. Also, I don't think being in 5th would cause a problem, as the car would be MORE stable, not less stable.
I think it could be a "shift lock" like effect (actually, the opposite!). Let's suppose that Bandini was shifting down from 4th to 3rd. He increased the revs of the engine to match the 3rd, as usual with unsynchro gears, with the well-known technique of the "double-clutch". Then the 5th gear was enaged instead. It doesn't matter, here, the reason why this happened, if gearbox trouble or driver's error. Let's give credit to the rumors saying the car was found in 5th gear.

Obviously, the speed at which the double-clutch is performed inhibit any possibility to cope with a missed gear.
So, the engine was very high revved, when the clutch re-engaged. In 3rd gear the revs would perfectly match the speed of the car, and nothing would happen. In 5th gear instead, the rear wheels were suddenly pushed to a higher speed for a moment, producing an effect like (but opposite!) to the "shift lock".

Actual shift-lock is when you push the clutch and let the engine to lose revs, then re-engage suddenly the clutch letting the inertia to lock the rear train for a moment. Here, instead to lower revs, we have higher revs: the result is the same, the rear wheels drift and the car oversteer.
PTRACER wrote:An interesting fact - When Bandini crashed on Lap 81, only 7 cars were left in the race. Some of the slower cars were so far behind, that even on lap 85, Bandini was still classified in 5th place. On lap 86 he dropped to 7th and it wasn't until Lap 92 that Bandini was officially classified as a "non-finisher".
Yeah! Monaco in that era was a very demanding track. The year before (1966) was not much different. Only 4 cars over the 16 started was classified. On the track there were also Ligier and Bonnier with their Cooper, more than 25 laps down, so they were (not) classified behind Ginther that retired with transmission failure with 20 laps to go.
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Post by ulibarra » 3 years ago

330tr wrote:Image

It'is not even certain that it was in 5th gear..
More I look to it, more I am convincing it's actually the 5th gear instead.
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Post by ascari66 » 3 years ago

ulibarra wrote:
330tr wrote:Image

It'is not even certain that it was in 5th gear..
More I look to it, more I am convincing it's actually the 5th gear instead.
WITHOUT doubt :thumbsup:

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Post by 330tr » 3 years ago

ascari66 wrote:
ulibarra wrote:
330tr wrote:Image

It'is not even certain that it was in 5th gear..
More I look to it, more I am convincing it's actually the 5th gear instead.
WITHOUT doubt :thumbsup:
Image

Are you really, really sure?

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Post by erwin greven » 3 years ago

I think it is stuck in 3rd.
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Post by ascari66 » 3 years ago

330tr wrote:
ascari66 wrote:
ulibarra wrote:
330tr wrote:Image

It'is not even certain that it was in 5th gear..
More I look to it, more I am convincing it's actually the 5th gear instead.
WITHOUT doubt :thumbsup:
Image

Are you really, really sure?
well... Third gear is also ruled out . It would be fourth gear or this scheme is stuck ? :twothumbs:

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Post by erwin greven » 3 years ago

Here it looks as if it is in neutral.
Image
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Post by ReneLotus » 3 years ago

Could also have happened in the impact

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Post by pedro59 » 3 years ago

Flat_In_5th wrote:All the accounts of the crash, from respectable journos, indicate that fatigue paid a major part in the mistake Lorenzo made at the chicane. I was surprised to hear of this, even though the accident occurred near the end of the race. What say ye...
Dear friend "Flat_In_5th" your concerns are absolutely right!
Unfortunately these newspapers and magazines were not as reliable as we thought. Attribute the cause of the accident to the physical conditions of Lorenzo Bandini was the easiest solution that saved all: Ferrari, excluding mechanical problems, the organizers hiding the danger of the circuit of Monte Carlo and the clamorous inefficiency of the rescue.
I think Lorenzo Bandini was a great professional, with a perfect physical preparation for the standards of the mid-sixties, and I have always found it regrettable that this legend may have endured for nearly half a century.

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Post by vontrips61 » 3 years ago

I am confused about it .for a 3D view "virtual" , maybe I 'd say it's in 3rd

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