Bottom post of the previous page:
Can Scott Speed be counted for his esport prowess? No? No?Carry on.
Bottom post of the previous page:
Can Scott Speed be counted for his esport prowess? No? No?Would certainly rank Jeff Gordon at the very pointy end for the last 25-30 years. He did win a Rolex a few years ago, so at least he's not useless on road courses.
Smart arse!!!MonteCristo wrote: ↑3 years ago Can Scott Speed be counted for his esport prowess? No? No?
Carry on.
You've got me on that one.....Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoJimmy Murphy, no contest. Within five years of his very first start, he'd won Indy and the Grand Prix - at that stage of his career, Mario hadn't even so much as only started a Championship race, while Phil Hill and Gurney were still doing clubbies.
French Grand Prix.jimclark wrote: ↑3 years agoYou've got me on that one.....Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoJimmy Murphy, no contest. Within five years of his very first start, he'd won Indy and the Grand Prix - at that stage of his career, Mario hadn't even so much as only started a Championship race, while Phil Hill and Gurney were still doing clubbies.
What's "the Grand Prix"? There was no F1 back then even if you meant Indy.
Anywho, the '20s are a far cry from the '60s.
Additionally (and most importantly) strictly oval trackers don't.....drive as they might.....even get on my list of great "drivers".
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... grand-prixjimclark wrote: ↑3 years agoYou've got me on that one.....Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoJimmy Murphy, no contest. Within five years of his very first start, he'd won Indy and the Grand Prix - at that stage of his career, Mario hadn't even so much as only started a Championship race, while Phil Hill and Gurney were still doing clubbies.
What's "the Grand Prix"? There was no F1 back then even if you meant Indy.
Anywho, the '20s are a far cry from the '60s.
Additionally (and most importantly) strictly oval trackers don't.....drive as they might.....even get on my list of great "drivers".
Yes, the brevity of his career is a problem. But most careers were shorter then, for various reasons. If you make longivity an exclusive argument, then you exclude basically everything before WW2. Anyway, I just wanted to throw in a different name, and James Anthony Murphy was really an exceptional racing driver, not only for his time. He may have won only one Indy 500, but so did Mario. His overall record at Indy is astounding, in five tries he finished fourth, fourth, first, third and third - I think that's the best run of top four finishes in history. He also raced in "the Grand Prix" which back then was pretty equivalent to a World Championship, and won it on his first try. He also finished third in the 1923 Gran Premio at Monza, another high profile European road racing event. Not much more could have been achieved at the time, especially considering that it took weeks to travel between continents.MonteCristo wrote: ↑3 years agoFrench Grand Prix.jimclark wrote: ↑3 years agoYou've got me on that one.....Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoJimmy Murphy, no contest. Within five years of his very first start, he'd won Indy and the Grand Prix - at that stage of his career, Mario hadn't even so much as only started a Championship race, while Phil Hill and Gurney were still doing clubbies.
What's "the Grand Prix"? There was no F1 back then even if you meant Indy.
Anywho, the '20s are a far cry from the '60s.
Additionally (and most importantly) strictly oval trackers don't.....drive as they might.....even get on my list of great "drivers".
Could certainly argue that he was extremely talented... But the shortness of his career stops him from being an all-time great in my books. He may have done it in short time, but there are still 20 multiple (2+) Indy 500 winners.
A victim of the times.
I totally agree there's not much more than he could have done in that era. But the sample size is just so small - he was only in barely over 50 races during his career from what I can gather. The era itself was also so difficult to judge due to grid sizes and disparate cars.Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoYes, the brevity of his career is a problem. But most careers were shorter then, for various reasons. If you make longivity an exclusive argument, then you exclude basically everything before WW2. Anyway, I just wanted to throw in a different name, and James Anthony Murphy was really an exceptional racing driver, not only for his time. He may have won only one Indy 500, but so did Mario. His overall record at Indy is astounding, in five tries he finished fourth, fourth, first, third and third - I think that's the best run of top four finishes in history. He also raced in "the Grand Prix" which back then was pretty equivalent to a World Championship, and won it on his first try. He also finished third in the 1923 Gran Premio at Monza, another high profile European road racing event. Not much more could have been achieved at the time, especially considering that it took weeks to travel between continents.MonteCristo wrote: ↑3 years agoFrench Grand Prix.jimclark wrote: ↑3 years agoYou've got me on that one.....Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years agoJimmy Murphy, no contest. Within five years of his very first start, he'd won Indy and the Grand Prix - at that stage of his career, Mario hadn't even so much as only started a Championship race, while Phil Hill and Gurney were still doing clubbies.
What's "the Grand Prix"? There was no F1 back then even if you meant Indy.
Anywho, the '20s are a far cry from the '60s.
Additionally (and most importantly) strictly oval trackers don't.....drive as they might.....even get on my list of great "drivers".
Could certainly argue that he was extremely talented... But the shortness of his career stops him from being an all-time great in my books. He may have done it in short time, but there are still 20 multiple (2+) Indy 500 winners.
A victim of the times.
I mentioned him on page 1!
From the start of the 1930 race until his crash in '32 he lead all but 49 laps.Wikipedia wrote:He won the 1930 Indianapolis 500 after leading all but first two laps of the race, the most ever by a winner of the race and he won by a margin of 7 minutes and 17 seconds. He was 24 years old at the time. In 1931 he led 155 laps but crashed on lap 162 while holding a five-lap lead, suffering serious injuries along with his riding mechanic Spider Matlock.[3] A tire came off the car, bounced over the fence the killed 11 year old Wilbur Brink who was playing in his front yard outside the track.[4] In 1932 Arnold led 57 laps before crashing on lap 59. He suffered a broken shoulder and riding mechanic Matlock suffered a broken pelvis. At the urging of his wife, Arnold retired from racing.
'Appreciate the link, but I know what a grand prix in auto racing is. I asked about your "the Grand Prix" regarding which one it was that you were referring.Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... grand-prix
Yes, a far cry, but don't be so hard on the sixties, it was still a proper sport then.
I get your point about "strictly oval" racers, although I don't understand why "strictly road" racers are okay with you, then. But anywho, it doesn't apply to Jimmy Murphy, who raced ovals, short and long, paved and unpaved, as well as roads, short and long, paved und unpaved. He doesn't lack in variety at all
And a good post it was!EB wrote: ↑3 years agoI mentioned him on page 1!
I'm intrigued as to how good Frank Lockhart was - everyone knows his reputation on the engineering side but so many contemporaries seemed to rate him equally highly as a driver, certainly up there with Murphy amongst the 1920s brigade, far ahead of the Eddie Hearnes and Harry Hartzs.
Let us not discuss age/ing......a very sore subject here!!!Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago Monza and Elgin.
About "the Grand Prix", I thought you were old enough to know that there were times when there was only one Grand Prix (I know most of the younger ones posting here don't know or care). In fact, until 1968 it didn't need an actual name, it was officially just THE "Grand Prix" - it only became the "Grand Prix de France" when the FFSA took over from the ACF in the revolutionary year of 1968 (yeah, it was not only de Gaulle's old guard which disappeared that year! )