DRIVERS Superstitions.

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#16

Post by Alucard »

Bottom post of the previous page:

That was probably for being wet and not catching fire as easily when crashing the tincans they used to drive back then!

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#17

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Number 13 in Motor Racing. Paul mentioned elswhere about #13 in relation to racing, so here we go. I guess something under the Superstition thread is appropriate. Im sure I had posted about it but maybe not....

Davina Galica O.B.E., the British Olympic Ski champion who gave up ski-ing to follow a career in motor racing during the mid / late 1970's, in F2 British Domestic (AuroraAFX) F1 championships and even 3 full blown GP's (although I think the may have failed to qualify) always ran #13 on all her cars wherever possible, and did so in F1.

The actual #13 has not been used (other than by request) since the late 1920's I believe, following a bad run of #13 fatalaties.

Paul Torchy,crashed and was killed in September 1925 at the San Sebastian Grand Prix, running #13 on his Delage grand prix car. Also 13 cars started in this race.

Count Giulio Masetti was running #13 on his 12-cylinder 2-litre supercharged Delage grand prix car at the Targa Florio in April 1926. His car rolled over, killing the 31-year old driver.

Consequently, to protect the drivers from the superstitions, given the Western traditional superstitions surrounding the number, the French Automobile Club decided to eliminate the use of #13. The Americans had done so years before.

A few more oddities on the use of #13.....

Toni hopefully can confirm this part but im sure #13 is not seen as unlucky in Italy, where 17 (?) has the unlucky label.

Some organisers used to go as far as to only use even numbers on their race programmes. Re even numbers, even numbers only was quite popular especially in Italy. The 1st British GP @ Aintree in 1955 was all evens. Fixed numbering returned to F1 in 1973.

Fon de Portago raced his private Ferrari with #13.

In South Africa they had a driver called Clive Trundell, who raced a Cooper T45 Climax (F2). He raced as no. 13, but he asked the organisers for the number.

Yves Courage requested number 13 from the ACO for his Le Mans cars.

Gabriele Tarquini raced in F3000 in 1985 with number 13

The next driver to carry 13 on his F3000 car was Philippe Favre in the second half of 1990.

Franco Uncini, 500cc World Champion in 1982, used #13 in most of the races.

Moises Solana who raced sometimes in F1 carried #13. Moises Solana did race #13 in the 1964 Gran Premio de Mexico, driving the Centro Sud BRM, but I think maybe #13 in Mexico is actually seen as a lucky number. In Bike Racing, it has been used until recently by Marco Melandri, who became the youngest ever GP winner in 1998.

Australian racer Bob Holden apparently goes out of his way to carry 13. This could well date back to when as a part of the factory BMC Mini Cooper S squad the Mini he shared with Scandinavian rally driver Rauno Aaltonen at Bathurst 1966 wore #13. They won.Bruce McPhee won in a Holden Monaro in 1969 running #13 at his own request.

In Japan #13 has no unlucky connotations, where #4 is considered unlucky. Satoru Nakajima refused to carry 4 on his 1986 F3000 Ralt, so John Nielsen carried that number instead, giving Nakajima race no.5.

Nakajima left the team before the end of the season, and Nielsen, having had a fairly poor year, thought that there might be something in race #4 being unlucky after all, so at the final race of the season, swapped to #5! I think the #4 problem to the Japanese may be that maybe due to the Japanese words for 'four' and 'death' having the same pronunciation ('shi'?).

This is the same reason, incidentally, that both Nakajima and Ukyo Katayama never carried #4 when they raced for Tyrrell; they both used #3.
Australian Race and Rally 'legend' Colin Bond changed his number to 8 from 4. The request to change it came from his Japanese tyre supplier Toyo.

Wayne Gardner used the #4 in touring cars in Australia when he gave up bikes. In 1997, Gardner swapped numbers with team-mate Neil Crompton (7) on the advice of a Japanese friend . Gardner won his first round wearing the number 7. Actually it seems strange that having ridden for Honda for a couple of years with the #4, no-one told him of the Japanese superstition.

Another numbering oddity unrelated to any of this is Australian Peter Williamson always used to have numbers that were two of the same on his hand built Toyotas. 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, all multiples of eleven

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#18

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Found this photo from the 1914 Indy 500, click to enlarge:

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Ma ... ng_driver)
The origins of the number 13 being considered unlucky has a number of questionable explanations. Theories range from Mathematical (Since 12 is considered a perfect number, 13 must therefore be imperfect) to Astronomical (The uncommon occurrence of 13 full moons in a calendar year caused problems for early astronomers mapping lunar cycles) to Biblical (Judas was the 13th guest to sit down at the Last Supper) to Historical (the arrests, disbanding, and executions of the Knights Templar began on Friday the 13th).

Whatever the case, most folks tend to shy away from the number 13. High-rise buildings have no 13th floor and many airplanes do not have a 13th row on the seating chart. And, in motor racing, the number 13 is sparsely used. For the inaugural Indianapolis 500, car numbers were based on the timing of the entries and the number 13 was assigned to Billy Pierce of the Chicago-based Fal Car Team. Pierce, however, failed to make the field based on the qualifying procedures of the time.

George Mason started the Indianapolis 500 in a car with the number 13 in 1914. He dropped out of the race after 66 laps. The Indy 500 would not see another No. 13 for 89 years. It was, in fact, prohibited in the rule book to assign the 13 to a car for decades.
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#19

Post by erwin greven »

I can remember Enrique Bernoldi refusing to drive the #17? Arrows. 13 and 17 being unlucky numbers in Brazil. And Italy too. Alitalia skips row 13 and 17 in their airplanes.
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#20

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I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
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#21

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Japan as well.... there is a summary of stories about #4 in motor racing a couple of posts up. In fact here is the relevant part

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 17 years ago
In Japan #13 has no unlucky connotations, where #4 is considered unlucky. Satoru Nakajima refused to carry 4 on his 1986 F3000 Ralt, so John Nielsen carried that number instead, giving Nakajima race no.5.

Nakajima left the team before the end of the season, and Nielsen, having had a fairly poor year, thought that there might be something in race #4 being unlucky after all, so at the final race of the season, swapped to #5! I think the #4 problem to the Japanese may be that maybe due to the Japanese words for 'four' and 'death' having the same pronunciation ('shi'?).

This is the same reason, incidentally, that both Nakajima and Ukyo Katayama never carried #4 when they raced for Tyrrell; they both used #3.
Australian Race and Rally 'legend' Colin Bond changed his number to 8 from 4. The request to change it came from his Japanese tyre supplier Toyo.

Wayne Gardner used the #4 in touring cars in Australia when he gave up bikes. In 1997, Gardner swapped numbers with team-mate Neil Crompton (7) on the advice of a Japanese friend . Gardner won his first round wearing the number 7. Actually it seems strange that having ridden for Honda for a couple of years with the #4, no-one told him of the Japanese superstition.

Another numbering oddity unrelated to any of this is Australian Peter Williamson always used to have numbers that were two of the same on his hand built Toyotas. 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, all multiples of eleven

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#22

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Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Lewis cancelling it out by going with the double-four.
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#23

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

John wrote: 4 years ago
Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Lewis cancelling it out by going with the double-four.
Lewis parking in the smallest gravel trap in the world, in pitlane entry at the 2007 Chinese GP which cost him the WDC. :haha: :wink:
Edit: Just realised that he was in a McLaren then, and the the pre drivers perpetual number days, running #2 that year :whistling: :wink:

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#24

Post by XcraigX »

There was a famous story of a driver who raced with a lucky charm in the cockpit, but without success. The team ceremoniously destroyed the charm and the driver returned to winning form. Only I can't remember who it was. Mika Hakkinen maybe? Something about a lucky stuffed frog?
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#25

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Valentino Rossi is superstitious and renowned for his pre-ride rituals.

On a race day, he will always watch the beginning of the Moto3 race to see how long the starting lights remain lit before going out at the start of the race.

Prior to riding (whether racing, qualifying, or practice), he will start his personal ritual by stopping about two metres from his bike, bending over and reaching for his boots. Then, when arriving at his bike, he will crouch down and hold the right-side foot-peg, with his head bowed.
In an interview, Rossi said "It’s just a moment to focus and ‘talk’ to my bike, like moving from one place to the next."

He also always puts the same boot on first, as he does with his gloves.

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#26

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Glenn 'Fireball' Roberts refused to allow himself to be kissed by "beauty queens" at race tracks before a race, as the first three times he let himself be kissed, he had an accident.
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#27

Post by PTRACER »

acerogers58 wrote: 4 years ago Glenn 'Fireball' Roberts refused to allow himself to be kissed by "beauty queens" at race tracks before a race, as the first three times he let himself be kissed, he had an accident.
Not superstition, but distraction :haha:
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#28

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Just realised this following superstition is not included in this thread. Yet! Actually the story is told elsewhere on the forum, but the suppressions he had are relevant here

It is to do with Archie Scott-Brown. His death at Spa was a tale of sadness, indeed with parallels to Jim Clark, who died at Hockenheim in an F2 he was a late entry to when when he was supposed to be driving at the BOAC 1000 at Brands. He chose to drive at Hockenheim.

I hav inclued the associated story of Archie's death for purposes of context.
**As such the usual warnings of the fatal accident apply**

......On the same day, the Monaco GP took place and Archie should have been there instead driving a Cooper converted to take an F1 version of Archie Butterworth's flat-four engine. Unfortunately the car was not ready in time, leaving Archie free to drive at Spa. When Archie was killed, Butterworth stopped work on his car and withdrew from motor racing. His Cooper chassis still exists. unused.

Archie's acceptance at Spa should have been a moment for happiness all round for it looked as though he had been accepted in Europe at last and a good performance would open up other opportunities including F1, for BRM was still very interested in him. Strangely, though, four of those close to him had premonitions of disaster, even though he'd never hurt himself at the wheel of a car. Jose went so far as to phone the team on a pretence simply to speak to Archie and tell him to take care, winning wasn't everything.

It is likely that Archie had communicated anxiety to those close to him following his defeat at Masten Gregory's hands a fortnight before.

Certainly none of the four are at all superstitious, though Archie was.

He liked numbers which contained the number nine or multiples of nine, he always wore a "lucky" red scarf and he always drove with a mascot, a toy black cat wearing a "Cambridge" blue bow. For some reason he did not have it with him at Spa that fateful day.


Gregory sat on pole with Scott-Brown alongside. From the start they constantly passed and re-passed each other when, on lap six, when leading, Archie came to Clubhouse Bend and found the road damp from a local shower. Archie left the road, brushed the memorial to Dick Seaman who had died at that spot in 1939, scraped along a wall and hit a road sign which Paul Frere had requested the organisers to remove. This bent the oft side front suspension and put the car out of control The car rolled and petrol came gushing out and ignited. Archie s car had been fitted with a magnesium body, for lightness, and this caught fire too.

Archie was dragged from his car by a gendarme. Back in the medical centre in the paddock he murmured something like "I made a right bloody mess of that, didn't l?" By a macabre coincidence. the doctor who attended him had attended Seaman in 1939 and he announced that the burns were identical. Archie died the following afternoon with his father by his bedside. Among his last words was a message to Brian (Lister, whose car he was driving) not to feel too badly about the crash.
. viewtopic.php?p=336026&hilit=Archie+Scott+Brown#p336026

Incidentally as a late inclusion at Spa he was not running a number which contained the number nine or multiples of nine, as favoured throughout his career in superstition. (He was running as #16 at Spa). I will add that though the 9 factor was his preference there were a number of times he raced in non 9 associated numbers, so the 9 factor was clearly a preference rather than a hard and fast rule.

I guess there are also parallels with Ascari.... both Archie and Alberto died without their lucky item, Archie without his toy black cat and Alberto without his lucky blue helmet.

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#29

Post by Michael Ferner »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 years ago
Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Japan as well.... there is a summary of stories about #4 in motor racing a couple of posts up. In fact here is the relevant part

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 17 years ago
In Japan #13 has no unlucky connotations, where #4 is considered unlucky. Satoru Nakajima refused to carry 4 on his 1986 F3000 Ralt, so John Nielsen carried that number instead, giving Nakajima race no.5.

Nakajima left the team before the end of the season, and Nielsen, having had a fairly poor year, thought that there might be something in race #4 being unlucky after all, so at the final race of the season, swapped to #5! I think the #4 problem to the Japanese may be that maybe due to the Japanese words for 'four' and 'death' having the same pronunciation ('shi'?).

This is the same reason, incidentally, that both Nakajima and Ukyo Katayama never carried #4 when they raced for Tyrrell; they both used #3.
Australian Race and Rally 'legend' Colin Bond changed his number to 8 from 4. The request to change it came from his Japanese tyre supplier Toyo.

Wayne Gardner used the #4 in touring cars in Australia when he gave up bikes. In 1997, Gardner swapped numbers with team-mate Neil Crompton (7) on the advice of a Japanese friend . Gardner won his first round wearing the number 7. Actually it seems strange that having ridden for Honda for a couple of years with the #4, no-one told him of the Japanese superstition.

Another numbering oddity unrelated to any of this is Australian Peter Williamson always used to have numbers that were two of the same on his hand built Toyotas. 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, all multiples of eleven
Akira Yanagawa did not care!
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#30

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Michael Ferner wrote: 5 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 years ago
Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Japan as well.... there is a summary of stories about #4 in motor racing a couple of posts up. In fact here is the relevant part

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 17 years ago
In Japan #13 has no unlucky connotations, where #4 is considered unlucky. Satoru Nakajima refused to carry 4 on his 1986 F3000 Ralt, so John Nielsen carried that number instead, giving Nakajima race no.5.

Nakajima left the team before the end of the season, and Nielsen, having had a fairly poor year, thought that there might be something in race #4 being unlucky after all, so at the final race of the season, swapped to #5! I think the #4 problem to the Japanese may be that maybe due to the Japanese words for 'four' and 'death' having the same pronunciation ('shi'?).

This is the same reason, incidentally, that both Nakajima and Ukyo Katayama never carried #4 when they raced for Tyrrell; they both used #3.
Australian Race and Rally 'legend' Colin Bond changed his number to 8 from 4. The request to change it came from his Japanese tyre supplier Toyo.

Wayne Gardner used the #4 in touring cars in Australia when he gave up bikes. In 1997, Gardner swapped numbers with team-mate Neil Crompton (7) on the advice of a Japanese friend . Gardner won his first round wearing the number 7. Actually it seems strange that having ridden for Honda for a couple of years with the #4, no-one told him of the Japanese superstition.

Another numbering oddity unrelated to any of this is Australian Peter Williamson always used to have numbers that were two of the same on his hand built Toyotas. 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, all multiples of eleven
Akira Yanagawa did not care!
I guess by the same token there are and were Westerners that like to use #13 by choice. Always going to be exceptions to the rule. I think the most recent in terms of F1 was Pastor Maldonado who took it by choice when drivers were first offered 'career numbers' in 2014. Yves Courage always liked to run #13 on his Courage Le Mans cars. In Motorbike terms Franco Uncini always favoured the #13 on his bikes.

Talking about #13, is it coincidence that the FIA article in the regs relating to crash tests is I believe Article 13. :suspicious: :whistling:

Often manufacturers in F1 have avoided #13.....

Brabham went from a BT12 Indycar chassis to a BT14 Formula Libre car. There was a deliberate avoidance to a BT13. That was down to Jack Brabham's insistence. Ron Tauranac, his designer and Brabham partner was actually born on the 13 and personally had used #13 out of choice in his motor race activities.

@Michael Ferner I believed your favourite, Bruce McLaren was another who avoided #13 with his chassis.... His M12 was a customer Can-Am car, but the next car his team built – the 1970 F1 entry – was named the M14. It went even further with Bruce. who with Mr Ferner's favourite car, the M23, made in large numbers for a race car due to its longevity, avoided chassis #13. The 13th M23 built was the Brett Lunger BS Fabrications Car. That was given chassis #M23/14. I will hasten to add I doubt if I am divulging info Michael was not aware of in relation to McLaren! :wink:

Actually Surtees is another avoider of 13..... He went from the TS12 (I believe a Sportscar) to the TS14 (the 1973 F1 car)

Guy Ligier only used to use odd numbers on his cars, but he went from the JS11 in 1979 to the next car being the 1980 JS11/15, then the JS17 the following year.

Of course Frank Williams was one of the couldnt care less brigade..... they had the FW12C in 1989, replaced by the FW13 which also had an FW13B evolution for 1990.

Amusingly Franks son Jonathan tells that there was never any thought by Frank of not having the FW13, yet the most prolific Williams built, the FW07, which had a total of 16 chassis built. There was intentionally never an FW07/13..... the chassis being numbered 01 to 12, and then 14 through 17.

When Jonathan Williams had asked Frank why there was no FW07/13 Frank had told him it was due to racing superstition. When Frank was asked why if racing superstition was a thought with FW07/13 being omitted, why was there a number of FW13 and even 13B's manufactured? Frank apparently thought for a moment thought for a moment and replied, ‘We must have forgotten the superstition!’” :haha:

Oh forgot to mention, Tyrrell had the 012 from 1983-5 before releasing the 014 for 1985/6., omitting any thought of an 013 . Ironically Ken Tyrrell was not in the slightest bit superstition according to his son, but it was a cleard descision to avoid the 13 due to a case of 'why tempt fate'.

Keeping with the Tyrrell theme, I read somewhere of the #6 being a favoured number to Cevert, albeit not in racing terms but a sort of lucky number.

On the very day he died at the Glen, he had earlier suggested to those around him it was to be his lucky day.... it was the 6th day of the month, the car was Tyrrell 006, his race number was #6, and installed in rear of his car was Cosworth DVV engine #066. That didnt age well.

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#31

Post by Nononsensecapeesh »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 years ago
Circuitmaster wrote: 4 years ago I know that China believe 4 to be unlucky in a similar way, in fact any number that contains a 4 can be considered unlucky..

I haven't seen this manifest itself in sporting circles, though
Japan as well.... there is a summary of stories about #4 in motor racing a couple of posts up. In fact here is the relevant part

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 17 years ago
In Japan #13 has no unlucky connotations, where #4 is considered unlucky. Satoru Nakajima refused to carry 4 on his 1986 F3000 Ralt, so John Nielsen carried that number instead, giving Nakajima race no.5.

Nakajima left the team before the end of the season, and Nielsen, having had a fairly poor year, thought that there might be something in race #4 being unlucky after all, so at the final race of the season, swapped to #5! I think the #4 problem to the Japanese may be that maybe due to the Japanese words for 'four' and 'death' having the same pronunciation ('shi'?).

This is the same reason, incidentally, that both Nakajima and Ukyo Katayama never carried #4 when they raced for Tyrrell; they both used #3.
Australian Race and Rally 'legend' Colin Bond changed his number to 8 from 4. The request to change it came from his Japanese tyre supplier Toyo.

Wayne Gardner used the #4 in touring cars in Australia when he gave up bikes. In 1997, Gardner swapped numbers with team-mate Neil Crompton (7) on the advice of a Japanese friend . Gardner won his first round wearing the number 7. Actually it seems strange that having ridden for Honda for a couple of years with the #4, no-one told him of the Japanese superstition.

Another numbering oddity unrelated to any of this is Australian Peter Williamson always used to have numbers that were two of the same on his hand built Toyotas. 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, all multiples of eleven
That will explain Takuma Sato's 2005 Season.
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