CANADIAN GP 2019

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PTRACER
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Re: CANADIAN GP 2019

Post by PTRACER » 2 months ago

Latest post of the previous page:

Vassago wrote:
2 months ago
This is racing though, when you see a driver in front of you make such a big mistake of course you want to pounce on it esp. in the era where overtaking is so difficult. You can't expect Kimi to slam on the brakes and kindly allow Verstappen to recover his spot :tongue:
Exactly, but as I say, if Kimi WASN'T going for that gap then Max would have been fine.

Here are the steward's words for Verstappen:
The Stewards reviewed the video evidence, and determined that car 33 locked up his brakes and left the track at turn 16, cut the chicane and rejoined track on the racing line in turn 17 and in the process collided with car 7
He didn't collide with Raikkonen because he rejoined unsafely. He collided with Raikkonen because Raikkonen put his car in harm's way.

Similarly, the explanation for Vettel at Montreal:
The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5,left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
Again, similarly, Hamilton took the risk and put his car in harm's way. Imagine if Vettel had rejoined the track sideways and out of control? They would have both collided and we would all be saying Hamilton should have slowed down and been more cautious rather than trying to force his way past.
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Post by Cheeveer » 2 months ago

PTRACER wrote:
2 months ago

Similarly, the explanation for Vettel at Montreal:
The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5,left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
Again, similarly, Hamilton took the risk and put his car in harm's way. Imagine if Vettel had rejoined the track sideways and out of control? They would have both collided and we would all be saying Hamilton should have slowed down and been more cautious rather than trying to force his way past.
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Post by MonteCristo » 2 months ago

I blame society.
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Post by Vassago » 2 months ago

PTRACER wrote:
2 months ago
Vassago wrote:
2 months ago
This is racing though, when you see a driver in front of you make such a big mistake of course you want to pounce on it esp. in the era where overtaking is so difficult. You can't expect Kimi to slam on the brakes and kindly allow Verstappen to recover his spot :tongue:
Exactly, but as I say, if Kimi WASN'T going for that gap then Max would have been fine.

Here are the steward's words for Verstappen:
The Stewards reviewed the video evidence, and determined that car 33 locked up his brakes and left the track at turn 16, cut the chicane and rejoined track on the racing line in turn 17 and in the process collided with car 7
He didn't collide with Raikkonen because he rejoined unsafely. He collided with Raikkonen because Raikkonen put his car in harm's way.

Similarly, the explanation for Vettel at Montreal:
The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5,left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
Again, similarly, Hamilton took the risk and put his car in harm's way. Imagine if Vettel had rejoined the track sideways and out of control? They would have both collided and we would all be saying Hamilton should have slowed down and been more cautious rather than trying to force his way past.
Pure speculation. Let's talk about facts and what actually happened. I understand you want to defend Vettel no matter what but you're basically saying if anyone should be punished for Vettel's mistake, it's Hamilton and not Vettel. That's insane.
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Post by kals » 2 months ago

MonteCristo wrote:
2 months ago
I blame society.
kals wrote:
2 months ago

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Post by PTRACER » 2 months ago

Cheeveer wrote:
2 months ago
PTRACER wrote:
2 months ago

Similarly, the explanation for Vettel at Montreal:
The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5,left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
Again, similarly, Hamilton took the risk and put his car in harm's way. Imagine if Vettel had rejoined the track sideways and out of control? They would have both collided and we would all be saying Hamilton should have slowed down and been more cautious rather than trying to force his way past.
Yup. Hill should have never gone for that gap. Had he waited till after the corner, he would have been champion.
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Post by PTRACER » 2 months ago

Vassago wrote:
2 months ago
Pure speculation. Let's talk about facts and what actually happened. I understand you want to defend Vettel no matter what but you're basically saying if anyone should be punished for Vettel's mistake, it's Hamilton and not Vettel. That's insane.
I don't want to defend Vettel, I can't stand the guy. I don't like Hamilton either. I'm just sick of these micro-aggressions between the race stewards and the drivers.

20 years ago the only penalties we had were 10-second stop/go penalties and black flags/DSQs. Every other mistake was punished by gravel traps and tyre barriers.

Now we have in-race and post-race time penalties. Grid drops of 3, 5, 10 or 20 places. Reprimands. A complete penalty points license system. And a team of celebrity judges who sit there handing all of these out like the panel on the X-Factor. It's a NO from me.
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Post by Vassago » 2 months ago

I'm the last guy who supports the astroturf hell. But that's the product of current racing. Drivers are never punished by going off track. A simple spin in the gravel would lose you entire session and now you just put the throttle down and can get away with multiple errors so drivers don't cherish what they have anymore. Actually CGV is one track that can punish your mistakes as seen with Magnussen in Q2 and Vettel's error wouldn't be much different in the old days too. But the whole 5 secs. penalty BS stems from those incidents when drivers make an error yet are not punished by the gravel at all bc it's not there. This is a cultural thing right now but it will only get worse with more astroturf hell incoming.
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Post by John » 2 months ago

Yes. Basically I'm sticking to the opinion that the penalties are crap, but if they're there I fully expect the judges to enforce them.
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Post by kals » 2 months ago

Anyone else spot the flaw in Jolyon Palmer's logic of "I would've done the same... and I would've expected the same penalty"?

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Post by erwin greven » 2 months ago

Actually if Sebastian had let Hamilton pass, Hamilton would have done it with four wheels of the track.
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Post by DoubleFart » 2 months ago

kals wrote:
2 months ago
Anyone else spot the flaw in Jolyon Palmer's logic of "I would've done the same... and I would've expected the same penalty"?

That Palmer wouldn't have ever been battling for the win?

That he'll never drive for Ferrari?

He'll never have Hamilton behind him?

That he would have probably spun?
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Post by erwin greven » 2 months ago

DoubleFart wrote:
2 months ago
kals wrote:
2 months ago
Anyone else spot the flaw in Jolyon Palmer's logic of "I would've done the same... and I would've expected the same penalty"?
He'll never have Hamilton behind him?
yeah, while being shown the blue flag..
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Post by kals » 2 months ago

DoubleFart wrote:
2 months ago
kals wrote:
2 months ago
Anyone else spot the flaw in Jolyon Palmer's logic of "I would've done the same... and I would've expected the same penalty"?

That Palmer wouldn't have ever been battling for the win?

That he'll never drive for Ferrari?

He'll never have Hamilton behind him?

That he would have probably spun?
All of the above :thumbsup:

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Post by Andy » 2 months ago

XcraigX wrote:
2 months ago
kals wrote:
2 months ago
DoubleFart wrote:
2 months ago
Nico Rosberg, rival to only Jaques Villeneuve for most undeserving Champion, goes against the opinion of every other motorsport name i've seen on Twitter, from Button and Andretti to the Wurz and to the Coronels and Van Der Garde's of this world.
Rosberg's justification is that Vettel was out of control when he forced Hamilton wide. It's something Rosberg is uniquely aware of as he himself was always in complete control of his car when forcing Lewis and other rivals off the circuit.
:agreepost:

The irony was so thick I left a funny taste in my mouth just from reading his comments.

I think the penalty was consistent with others handed out. But I don't like these rules/penalties because they seem subjective. There may be objective evidence, but it's not transparent to the fans.

One thing I've had a chance to think about is whether Vettel applying throttle during his grass-capade led to him coming back on out of control. Had he let off a bit more, he would have had the car under control during his return to the circuit.

However, it sure seems like he was looking in the mirror the entire time he was drifting to the right (as if to check the position of the driver behind). My gut is telling me there is more to this story.
Bolded the sentence to my reply.
You keep it pinned to keep control. A small blip and it will go wrong.
Have you ever handbraked and turned in on ice or snow respectively? If you blip the throttle only shortly the entire stability of the drift will go out of the window so you will want to keep the throttle open at a certain amount. Same on motorcycles by the way but much more important as it well can mean highsider depending on the speed you blipped
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Post by Mawerick » 2 months ago

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... y/4476541/
Ferrari has lodged a request for the FIA to review the decision to punish Sebastian Vettel for his actions at the Canadian Grand Prix, as predicted by Motorsport.com.

Following ongoing unhappiness at the way Vettel was handed a five-second penalty that cost him victory in Montreal, Ferrari wants the FIA stewards to look again as to whether or not Vettel did rejoin the track in an unsafe manner and force Lewis Hamilton off the circuit during the incident on lap 48 of the race.

Although the sanction could not be appealed under the FIA's rules, the governing body's International Sporting Code does give competitors the option of a post-event review of decisions, providing that new evidence that was not available at the time has come to light.

Article 14.1.1 of the code states that if "a significant and relevant new element is discovered which was unavailable to the parties seeking the review at the time of the Competition concerned," then it can reconvene stewards or replacements to look again at the case.

Ferrari had until this Sunday to lodge its review request and the team confirmed on Monday that it had written to the FIA to request the review. No further details of what new evidence it has lodged were immediately available.

The FIA will most likely convene stewards over the French GP weekend to look at the case, with their first decision likely to be whether or not the new evidence is admissible.

If they are satisfied that the new information is significant, then it will hear Ferrari's arguments that the decision to punish Vettel was wrong because it believes that the German did not break the regulations with his driving actions.
Well... time to get the popcorn out. Again.
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