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Gran Premio de Salma Hayek

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caneparo
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Re: Gran Premio de Salma Hayek

Post by caneparo » 4 months ago

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Everso Biggyballies wrote:
4 months ago
Max does not give up.... now he is saying any of the top drivers (including himself) would have won the title in the Mercedes.
I’m sure anyone would, but hamilton won 4 titles in 5 years. That was it.
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Post by erwin greven » 4 months ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
4 months ago
Yes the car was good.... but Lewis was the best driver on the grid all year. Very few mistakes.
But having the best car allows you to not overdrive the car. So making fewer mistakes.
Max said months or even more than a year ago: "Give me the same car and then we can see how good Lewis actually is."
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Post by XcraigX » 4 months ago

erwin greven wrote:
4 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
4 months ago
Yes the car was good.... but Lewis was the best driver on the grid all year. Very few mistakes.
But having the best car allows you to not overdrive the car. So making fewer mistakes.
Max said months or even more than a year ago: "Give me the same car and then we can see how good Lewis actually is."
Sounds like a typical 20 year old shooting his mouth off. He would continue to have the same crashes, but probably more wins.

The Mercedes was not the best car this year, the Ferrari was. It's just that the team and Seb made too many mistakes to bring the titles home.

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Post by erwin greven » 4 months ago

XcraigX wrote:
4 months ago
erwin greven wrote:
4 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote:
4 months ago
Yes the car was good.... but Lewis was the best driver on the grid all year. Very few mistakes.
But having the best car allows you to not overdrive the car. So making fewer mistakes.
Max said months or even more than a year ago: "Give me the same car and then we can see how good Lewis actually is."
Sounds like a typical 20 year old shooting his mouth off. He would continue to have the same crashes, but probably more wins.

The Mercedes was not the best car this year, the Ferrari was. It's just that the team and Seb made too many mistakes to bring the titles home.
And now Kimi Räikkönen says the same thing.

A lot say the Ferrari is so much faster or the better car. I doubt it.
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Post by caneparo » 4 months ago

I doubt it too. The cars were on the same level but something changed after Monza when Mercedes seemed to solve the graining and comsumption of the tyres they had been affected since the beginning of the season.
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Post by DoubleFart » 4 months ago

I don't believe that there was a best car this year. Some weekends the Ferrari should have won at a canter, and others they didn't have a chance of beating the Mercs.

Cars have been very temperamental and are on a razor's edge for setup, with a change of a couple of degrees in temp throwing them out of the operating window.
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Post by erwin greven » 4 months ago

Agreed @DoubleFart. I think it was like this the whole season. Sometimes we saw one team dominate free practice and qualification and when the race started they were nowhere.
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Post by kals » 4 months ago

DoubleFart wrote:
4 months ago
I don't believe that there was a best car this year. Some weekends the Ferrari should have won at a canter, and others they didn't have a chance of beating the Mercs.

Cars have been very temperamental and are on a razor's edge for setup, with a change of a couple of degrees in temp throwing them out of the operating window.
Agree. In that respect it is similar to 2008 when clear performance swapped race by race between McLaren and Ferrari. The difference between 2008 and 2018 is only one protagonist this season made mistakes.

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Post by Antonov » 4 months ago

kals wrote:
4 months ago
DoubleFart wrote:
4 months ago
I don't believe that there was a best car this year. Some weekends the Ferrari should have won at a canter, and others they didn't have a chance of beating the Mercs.

Cars have been very temperamental and are on a razor's edge for setup, with a change of a couple of degrees in temp throwing them out of the operating window.
Agree. In that respect it is similar to 2008 when clear performance swapped race by race between McLaren and Ferrari. The difference between 2008 and 2018 is only one protagonist this season made mistakes.
I think you might (also) mean 2007? (When you had Ferrari with long wheelbase, and McLaren with short wheelbase)

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Post by kals » 4 months ago

Antonov wrote:
4 months ago
kals wrote:
4 months ago
DoubleFart wrote:
4 months ago
I don't believe that there was a best car this year. Some weekends the Ferrari should have won at a canter, and others they didn't have a chance of beating the Mercs.

Cars have been very temperamental and are on a razor's edge for setup, with a change of a couple of degrees in temp throwing them out of the operating window.
Agree. In that respect it is similar to 2008 when clear performance swapped race by race between McLaren and Ferrari. The difference between 2008 and 2018 is only one protagonist this season made mistakes.
I think you might (also) mean 2007? (When you had Ferrari with long wheelbase, and McLaren with short wheelbase)
I meant 2008, but 2007 is also a good shout because of the swing in performance between the two teams each round.

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Post by caneparo » 4 months ago

kals wrote:
4 months ago
DoubleFart wrote:
4 months ago
I don't believe that there was a best car this year. Some weekends the Ferrari should have won at a canter, and others they didn't have a chance of beating the Mercs.

Cars have been very temperamental and are on a razor's edge for setup, with a change of a couple of degrees in temp throwing them out of the operating window.
Agree. In that respect it is similar to 2008 when clear performance swapped race by race between McLaren and Ferrari. The difference between 2008 and 2018 is only one protagonist this season made mistakes.
Massa made only one mistake in 2008. Hamilton was extremely lucky that year beside being consistency, but you couldn’t blame massa for the engine failure at the last lap of the hungarian gp or the mess at singapore gp. This year vettel made many mistakes led by the excessive rush to win the race and hamilton was perfect beside having a fast and reliable car, a team all for him, and the usual “little help from the friends”.
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Post by kals » 4 months ago

caneparo wrote:
4 months ago
Massa made only one mistake in 2008. Hamilton was extremely lucky that year beside being consistency, but you couldn’t blame massa for the engine failure at the last lap of the hungarian gp or the mess at singapore gp. This year vettel made many mistakes led by the excessive rush to win the race and hamilton was perfect beside having a fast and reliable car, a team all for him, and the usual “little help from the friends”.
One mistake? He spun off at turn one on lap one at Australia. Spun off from a safe second place at Malaysia. Acted like a spinning top at Silverstone. Turned Hamilton around at Japan, then punted off Bourdais later in the race. And there were more.

Hamilton also made many mistakes.

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Post by Antonov » 4 months ago

kals wrote:
4 months ago
caneparo wrote:
4 months ago
Massa made only one mistake in 2008. Hamilton was extremely lucky that year beside being consistency, but you couldn’t blame massa for the engine failure at the last lap of the hungarian gp or the mess at singapore gp. This year vettel made many mistakes led by the excessive rush to win the race and hamilton was perfect beside having a fast and reliable car, a team all for him, and the usual “little help from the friends”.
One mistake? He spun off at turn one on lap one at Australia. Spun off from a safe second place at Malaysia. Acted like a spinning top at Silverstone. Turned Hamilton around at Japan, then punted off Bourdais later in the race. And there were more.
- picked up the win at France after Kimi's mechanical gremlins
- was awarded the win at Spa after a very unanimous race
- was let through to keep his championship hopes alive in China

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Post by caneparo » 4 months ago

- won one race more than hamilton
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Post by Everso Biggyballies » 4 months ago

Massa was also robbed of the win at Hungary in 2008 when his engine blew a lap from the end, whilst leading, having led all the way apart from pit stops, allowing a distant Kovalainen to take the win .

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Post by kals » 4 months ago

Everso Biggyballies wrote:
4 months ago
Massa was also robbed of the win at Hungary in 2008 when his engine blew a lap from the end, whilst leading, having led all the way apart from pit stops, allowing a distant Kovalainen to take the win .
Toni had already mentioned that in his original answer.

Think we’ve gone off topic here somewhat, this isn’t supposed to be a bitchfest or justification about Massa and why or why he didn’t win the 2008 title. My point was that 2008 had two teams who from one race to the next had the best car (for that event) and that both title contenders made multiple mistakes during the year. Similar to 2018, apart from only one title contender made mistakes.

The conversation specifically about Massa started when Toni said he’d only made one mistake during the 2008 season. Which is false.

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