F1 2018 Winter Testing (26/2-1/3 & 6/3-9/3)

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#136

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

:haha: :haha:
Sainz did no mileage in the Renault either this morning. Gearbox issue.

Morning session over.

Times and laps:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1 Raikkonen Ferrari 1m17.221s 66
2 Grosjean Haas 1m18.590s +1.369 74
3 Hartley Toro Rosso 1m18.949 +1.728 91
4 Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.464s +2.243 97
5 Ocon Force India 1m19.667s +2.446 61
6 Sirotkin Williams 1m20.250s +3.029 72
7 Ricciardo Red Bull 1m20.275s +3.054 47
8 Leclerc Sauber 1m20.878s +3.657 18
Sainz Renault No time 7
Alonso McLaren No time 7

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#137

Post by John »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago
It had hardly got going when you guessed... Alonso stopped his McLaren on track and bought out the first red. It looked like it had again dropped its fluids and came home on the flatbed. The warning has gone out to drivers of oil everywhere at turn 7 where Alonso stopped. He had managed half a dozen laps (including outlaps) In fact he had not set a timed lap so all his running was in or outlaps.
McLaren have confirmed they are doing another engine change!
@kals Tide pod count: 1.
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#138

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

McLaren have got the engine change routine down to just over 5 hours today. Alonso back on track now. Doubled his lap count to 15 and got a time on the board now.... a 1:19.1 on ultrasofts to go 7th fastest.
@John didn't Kals escape the Tide pod count through a loophole. (Using Renault engines this year not the Honda mentioned?)

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#139

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Alonso has just jumped to second on the timesheets with a 1m18.276s, a little over a second off Raikkonen's benchmark.

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#140

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago Alonso has just jumped to second on the timesheets with a 1m18.276s, a little over a second off Raikkonen's benchmark.
OK so he cheated a little..... Time has been discounted and cancelled because he missed the chicane! He drops back to 7th. :wink:

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#141

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Into the last hour of pre season testing now. Both Alonso and Sainz are running and racking up laps.

Most are doing or have now done their full race sims.... will we see a mad dash of PR special Q3 sims in the last hour, for bragging rights as to who was quickest in testing. At the moment it is Ferrari 1 & 2, but I think we all realise that there have been a lot of sandbags delivered to Catalunya these past to weeks.

Current lap count for today.... Alonso reaches a race distance from his short day. Hartley leads the lap count on 156 in the Toro Roso Honda.

Lap count update:

Hartley 156
Ocon 148
Grosjean 147
Raikkonen 134
Sirotkin 105
Hamilton 97
Bottas 74
Ricciardo 71
Alonso 67
Leclerc 53
Sainz 22
Stroll 10

and FWIW the times

1 Raikkonen Ferrari 1m17.221s
2 Grosjean Haas 1m18.412s
3 Ricciardo Red Bull 1m18.715s
4 Bottas Mercedes 1m18.941s
5 Hartley Toro Rosso 1m18.949s
6 Ocon Force India 1m18.967s
7 Sirotkin Williams 1m19.189s
8 Alonso McLaren 1m19.192s
9 Sainz Renault 1m19.214s
10 Leclerc Sauber 1m19.450s
11 Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.464s
12 Stroll Williams 1m20.523s

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#142

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Lol at Alonso. He strapped on a set of hypersoft and became the 3rd person to do a 17 with a 17.784. He had stopped the clocks in the last minute on 1m16.720s, but had the time cancelled for chicane cutting! Sainz managed an 18.092 also on the pink rubber.

Final times and lap count.

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1 Raikkonen Ferrari 1m17.221s 153
2 Alonso McLaren 1m17.784s +0.563 93
3 Sainz Renault 1m18.092s +0.871 45
4 Ricciardo Red Bull 1m18.327s +1.106 92
5 Grosjean Haas 1m18.412s +1.191 181
6 Bottas Mercedes 1m18.825s +1.604 104
7 Hartley Toro Rosso 1m18.949s +1.728 156
8 Ocon Force India 1m18.967s +1.746 163
9 Leclerc Sauber 1m19.118s +1.897 75
10 Sirotkin Williams 1m19.189s +1.968 105
11 Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.464s +2.243 97
12 Stroll Williams 1m19.954s +2.733 27

Report on the final day from Motorsport.com:
Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen ended the final day of Barcelona Formula 1 pre-season testing with the quickest time, as McLaren and Renault both made up for lost ground on Friday afternoon.
Raikkonen's morning time of 1m17.221s was not threatened in the final afternoon of pre-season running, although a spate of late runs in the final hour served to shake up the order behind the Finn.

Daniel Ricciardo was first to make a big move with about 45 minutes to go, jumping to second in the Red Bull on supersofts, before being usurped by both Carlos Sainz and Fernando Alonso.

Sainz didn't get his day going in earnest until a little under two hours ago after Renault had to replace the RS18's gearbox, but went second-fastest with 30 minutes to run on hypersofts.

The Spaniard was beaten to the runner-up spot however by compatriot Alonso, who was making up for lost time after a turbo issue caused the McLaren to stop on track in the morning and lose over five hours while the Renault power unit was changed.

Using hypersofts, Alonso posted a 1m17.981s to go second and then improved to a 1m17.784s to end the day 0.563s slower than Raikkonen.

Alonso did briefly jump to the top of the times in the final 10 minutes, but had his lap deleted for cutting the final chicane, completing a total of 93 laps.

Romain Grosjean was the day's most productive runner for Haas with a tally of 181 laps, the best of which was good enough for fifth-fastest behind Ricciardo using ultrasofts.

Valtteri Bottas took over testing duties from Mercedes teammate Lewis Hamilton in the afternoon, going sixth fastest on mediums and giving the champion outfit a session-topping total of 201 laps.

After his morning spin, Charles Leclerc used hypersofts to move up to ninth in the Sauber behind Brendon Hartley (Toro Rosso) and Esteban Ocon (Force India).

Sergey Sirotkin (Williams) completed the top 10 having handed over to Lance Stroll for the final few hours, with the Canadian again setting the slowest of the day behind Hamilton using softs.

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#143

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Performance deltas revealed by Pirelli for F1 2018 tyre compounds

Formula 1 tyre supplier Pirelli has revealed the estimated laptime differences between the new 2018 compounds in pre-season testing at Barcelona.
Poor weather limited the 10 teams’ running in the first week at the Spanish Grand Prix venue, but better conditions in week two have allowed Pirelli to gather crucial data on its new six-tyre range.

Pirelli estimates a performance step of 0.8 seconds to the new soft tyre from the medium, which is the only compound that is not a new specification for this year - as it is identical to the 2017-spec soft.

From the new soft tyre to the new supersoft, Pirelli reported a more modest 0.4s difference, while the gap from the supersoft to the ultrasoft was “roughly 0.6s”.

Pirelli’s new tyre for 2018, the hypersoft, has been “0.7s to 0.8s” faster than the ultrasoft, according sporting director Mario Isola.

He said Pirelli has not made an estimate for the hard tyre, which is effectively an emergency compound for 2018, because “we don’t have a lot of data because it was used just yesterday [Thursday] by Mercedes and Sauber”.

Isola explained that the above numbers, which are specific to the Barcelona circuit, have been determined by “an average made from different teams” and the performance of the hypersoft is similar to last year’s post-season test in Abu Dhabi.

An added complication for Pirelli has been the new asphalt at Barcelona’s Circuit de Catalunya, which has been resurfaced completely primarily at the behest of MotoGP to smoothen out bumps.

“[The circuit] has completely different properties compared to the old one,” said Isola.

“The old one was quite abrasive with a lot of degradation, a lot of wear, suitable for the harder compounds.

“This tarmac is much smoother, but with a very good level of grip. That means we have less degradation and less wear because the tarmac is smooth, but the grip is still good.”

One of the consequences of the resurfacing has been the return of graining, which Isola claimed was never a problem in 2017.

“We had some blisters, we had some graining,” he said. “Graining is new compared to last year, last year we didn’t have any.

“I feel that the new tarmac is generating a little bit of graining because it’s smooth and you have some sliding on the front left.

“We have to confirm we have this kind of effect when we come back in May with higher temperatures.

“Blisters is not a surprise considering the energy the new cars are putting on the new tyres.”

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#144

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Just say that they're the Soft, Medium and Hard ffs. It alienates fans.
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#145

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Raikkonen has basically admitted Ferrari were sandbagging, even with the record breaking times they set.
He also confirmed what we already know... that what we have seen to date is meaningless until we get to qualifying at Albert Park.
Obviously Mercedes have plenty left in the tank as well given they relatively slow times..
Kimi Raikkonen believes Barcelona unofficial lap record breaker Ferrari could have gone faster during Formula 1 pre-season testing if it wanted to.
Sebastian Vettel’s Thursday benchmark smashed the previous fastest lap around the Spanish Grand Prix venue and Raikkonen lapped only a tenth slower as he set the pace on Friday.

Speaking after the final day of testing before the 2018 season opener in Australia later this month, Raikkonen said Ferrari had more pace to unleash.

“We’ll see in two weeks,” he said when asked if Ferrari could be on pole in Melbourne. “I’m sure if we want to go faster, we can, but it doesn’t mean anything here.

“In two weeks everybody will know where everybody is. Until then, we are only guessing, like we were before testing started.”

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#146

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Would mean nothing if they took pole in Oz anyway - they should have won the last two Australian GP's but have zero titles to their name.
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#147

Post by kals »

Autosport.com wrote:There will be plenty of people out there who will disagree with this analysis of the competitive order based on pre-season testing. And I hope I am wrong.

To make any sense out of these two pre-season tests is pretty difficult. But over the days a trend emerges, and that trend points to Mercedes having once again done an exceptional job.

You would have to tick all the boxes: performance, reliability and tyre degradation all look to be under control with the W09. The only little fly in the ointment might just be that Mercedes won't be as good as others when push comes to shove using softer tyres for qualifying.

Mercedes has bucketloads of data on the medium and probably the soft tyres, but less than other teams on the super, ultra and hypersoft versions. We can but hope.

I'm not going to get into what actual fuel loads different teams were running, because I would only be guessing. Suffice to say that normally the smaller teams would go for a glory run more often than the bigger teams. Fuel weight is a fairly straight delta to the lap time, so they can just apply that to know where they really stand.

I'm using the following differences in pace between compounds, based on what we've seen from the lap times rather than simply using Pirelli's averages:

Medium to soft - 0.2s
Soft to supersoft - 0.4s
Supersoft to ultrasoft - 0.6s
Ultrasoft to hypersoft - 0.8s

Add to that a fuel effect of 0.05s per lap for the fuel load reduction on the run that the time was set on and we can create an adjusted ranking. Unless stated, these were set on day four of the final test.

Pirelli reckons that the medium to soft tyre delta should be 0.8 seconds. But if you use that the Mercedes isn't just ahead - it's miles ahead. And I don't agree, anyway.

Adjusted performance
1 Mercedes 1m16.075s
2 Red Bull 1m16.527s
3 Haas 1m16.560s (day 3)
4 Ferrari 1m16.921s
5 Williams 1m17.089s
6 Renault 1m17.092s (day 2)
7 McLaren 1m17.584s
8 Toro Rosso 1m18.163s (day 3)
9 Force India 1m18.617s
10 Sauber 1m18.844s

1 Mercedes 1m16.075s - 1040 laps
The main problem with Mercedes - for everybody else - is that the dominant team of this era of F1 had a small problem last year. That led to head scratching, and with the expertise in Brackley and Brixworth that's probably the worst thing that could have happened to the rest.

Mercedes has put together a package that you could argue was a development of last year's car, and that was the right thing to do. Mercedes knew the speed was in there, it was just about unlocking it on more occasions.

So its challenge was to identify why this happened and rectify the problem. From what we have seen so far, the car is definitely quick. But we will have to wait until we hit a few other tracks to see if any of those 'diva' characteristics carry over.

On the track, the car looks good. Not perfect, but it gives the drivers confidence, which is a major asset when they need to go and find lap time.

2 Red Bull 1m16.527s - 783 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 0.40%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 0.59%
Red Bull has done a good job, but not quite good enough. A bit of that will still be in the Renault versus Mercedes power unit performance, but that's what Red bull has got to work with.

The car looks pretty good on the track and Red Bull has two very hungry drivers ready for success, but if they don't start the season with a win or two their enthusiasm may drop fairly quickly. You can be best of the rest for only so long.

Over the test days, the reliability wasn't perfect and if Red Bull is going to challenge for either of the championships, reliability needs to be rock solid. There will be enough outside factors that mean Red Bull won't finish all the races, but self-inflicted issues need to be a thing of the past from both Red Bull and Renault.

3 Haas 1m16.560s - 694 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 2.85%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 0.640%
If this is real progress then I am impressed. When Haas revealed its car, it all looked a bit tame to me but taking something that you understand and making it better could just be the right thing for this relatively small team.

Haas really needs to concentrate of consistency and keeping up with development, as this is where the team mainly fell down last year. We won't know if it has got on top of that until we are well into the season.

If Haas can also either fix Romain Grosjean's brakes or get him to brake a couple of meters earlier then more progress will be made. I am pretty impressed with what Kevin Magnussen is bringing to the team, and Grosjean will be driven on by that.

4 Ferrari 1m16.921s - 929 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 0.07%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 1.11%
This time last year, I was praising Ferrari for its aggressive approach to the new regulations. And on the circuit, the car looked really good. It didn't matter which tyre it was on, the balance seemed to be there.

This year, from what I have seen of the car at the first pre-season test, Ferrari doesn't seem to have moved on that much.

On the track, the car looks pretty good but it looks on the limit. Try to push that little bit more and it just slides wide. Even so, it's pretty well balanced, but just not the grip level of the Mercedes.

If this performance deficit is real then there will be dark clouds over Maranello and it won't be long before the chopping block is out.

5 Williams 1m17.089s - 819 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 2.00%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 1.33%
I'm probably as surprised as anyone to see Williams here, but it has changed its car's aerodynamics and probably mechanical design philosophy dramatically. The car is a mix of Ferrari and Mercedes concepts and it does look like Williams got a reasonable handle on how to make it work late in testing.

It would be good to see Williams back in contention. After all, it has a long and impressive pedigree. However, that means nothing: it is tomorrow that counts and I think the team has realised that by bringing in Paddy Lowe from Mercedes and Dirk de Beer From Ferrari.

Williams has two relatively inexperienced drivers, but that can also be a positive when you are trying to build a team, The old hardened professional driver can sometimes be a pain in the arse because they know everything about how their previous team worked instead of just driving the wheels off what they now have.

6 Renault 1m17.092s - 795 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 1.64%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 1.34%
Renault has been building the team back to what is required to challenge for race wins, but at some point you need to say 'OK, we are there now, how are we doing?'. I believe this is the year to ask that question.

The big challenge for Renault is to be ahead of McLaren, and over this test it has just about made it. Red Bull is a team that has been operating a high level for quite a few years, so it should still be out of touch this year. That said, it won't stop Renault trying. But I think it will be reasonably happy as long as it can consistently make progress as the season unfolds.

Renault had quite a few reliability problems that must be got on top of. This happened last year as well, costing quite a few points, so the team knows the importance of getting to the chequered flag.

Nico Hulkenberg and Carlos Sainz Jr are going to push each other hard and are both capable of success if they have the tools at their disposal.

7 McLaren 1m17.584s - 599 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 1.85%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 1.98%
The car certainly looks good, both on the circuit and up close. The detail is pretty good, but that doesn't always turn into lap time.

The change to Renault engines should only be positive. Yes, it is not the best engine in the pitlane but at least it puts McLaren in the position where others are using it, so the performance of the chassis can genuinely be measured.

But that's where it ends. The reliability has been abysmal and the main problem is every time it is something new. McLaren has had an electrical problem, a hydraulic leak, an engine oil leak and turbo problems - and those are just the ones we know about.

This is a team that has a huge facility and commitment behind it, and it should be on top of all that stuff. McLaren has as much equipment at its disposal as anyone else, yet smaller teams are able to get better reliability out of their cars.

All that said, it's better to have these problems in pre-season testing than at the first few races. I'm pretty sure there will be lots of McLaren personnel in Melbourne with their fingers crossed.

8 Toro Rosso 1m18.163s - 822 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 2.94%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 2.74%
Toro Rosso was probably the surprise of the test, of at least the Honda part of that equation. The team and Honda seem to be at home with each other and that can only be positive.

Initially, the car seemed to have a front-end problem, then as testing progressed, that seemed to go away. But I noticed later in the test there were comments about the front end giving up.

Doing the mileage it has achieved will have given the team and Honda bucketloads of data to trawl through - so I'm sure somewhere in there is the solution.

It has inexperienced drivers, similar to Williams, which will put the team in a questionable position. But all Toro Rosso can do is keep its head down, work closely with Honda and build for the future.

9 Force India 1m18.617s - 711 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 1.60%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 3.34%
Fourth in the constructors' championship for the last two seasons was a great result, but you are only as good as what you can do tomorrow. This year, it is going to be tough to maintain that championship position and, in reality, Force India could do a better job on pace relative to the top teams and still finish seventh.

This, on face value, is quite a dramatic drop off in performance relative to the frontrunners. But the team is adamant it came to these tests with the 2018 mechanical platform in place to make sure it understood and could get on top of the required set-up.

Force India intends to introduce a major aerodynamic package for Melbourne, and looking at the times from the test it needs to be major.

Force India needs to find a second and a half at least if it is to stand any chance of hanging in there in fourth place. A second and a half is a lifetime in F1.

On the circuit the car looks OK, it just doesn't have the grip of the frontrunners. A lot hinges on how much downforce it can add for Australia.

10 Sauber 1m18.844 - 786 laps
Deficit to front over last four races of 2017: 3.56%
Deficit to front in testing 2018: 3.64%
Looking at the percentage deficit to Mercedes in 2017, at the test Sauber has more or less stood still. But if you look at the car, it is completely different. I suppose that just says you can make it look different but it does not always improve the performance.

I'm pretty sure that Ferrari with its 'technical relationship' will get involved. It won't stand back and allow the Alfa Romeo branding that is now on the Sauber to be tarnished.

On the circuit, the car just looks like it hasn't got the grip. And the drivers visited the kitty litter too often.

Conclusion
Hopefully all of these times and assumptions are going to go out of the window when we get to Melbourne, the grid will be one of the closest we have ever seen and we won't know who is going to win until the cars come around the final corner to take the chequered flag. But I won't hold my breath.

Overall, from 2017 the midfield is a bit more mixed up and probably a bit closer to the front bunch. But from the front to the back the deficit is much the same. Nobody said it is easy, and whether you are at the front or the back you just have to keep your head down and get on with it.

The outcome from this test is not really what any of us wanted. Closer racing is all we ask for - so please let someone come up with a strategy to achieve that sometime in the near future.
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#148

Post by DoubleFart »

Only report I've seen that places Williams so highly. Most are saying they're taking over from McLaren as the has beens.
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#149

Post by kals »

DoubleFart wrote: 6 years ago Only report I've seen that places Williams so highly. Most are saying they're taking over from McLaren as the has beens.
I was surprised by their placing in this list also. But then again GA also places Haas ahead of Ferrari. There's something not quite right about that.
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Everso Biggyballies
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#150

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Post Spanish GP Testing.

There will be a two day test at Catalunya immediately following the Spanish Grand Prix. (Tuesday and Wednesday)
Good to see there will be a number of young Brits in action over the course of the two days.... Aitken, Norris, Rowland, Turvey and Russell, although the latter will be testing for Pirelli in a second Force India.

Even Kubica is getting a play in the Williams.
Renault junior Jack Aitken will make his debut in a contemporary Formula 1 car when he drives for the outfit in the post-Spanish Grand Prix test at Barcelona.
Aitken is a member of the Renault Sport Academy and was promoted to the role of reserve driver for the F1 team at the start of this year.

The Briton, who is racing in Formula 2 with ART Grand Prix this season, sampled F1 machinery for the first time at Jerez last year when he drove a Lotus E20 chassis from the 2012 season.

He also completed a demonstration run in the E20 at Toulon last weekend.

Aitken will drive this year's car on the second day of the Barcelona test next Wednesday, taking over from race driver Carlos Sainz Jr, who will be in charge of testing duties on the Tuesday after the grand prix.

Fellow F2 racer Sean Gelael will also be in action at Barcelona, testing for Toro Rosso on the opening day before handing the car over to Pierre Gasly.

Formula 2 championship leader Lando Norris will drive for McLaren on both days, sharing the car with Stoffel Vandoorne and Oliver Turvey.

Williams's young driver Oliver Rowland will make his debut in this year's FW41 before being replaced by Robert Kubica on the second day.

Force India will run Nicholas Latifi and Nikita Mazepin, the former also carrying out testing work for Pirelli alongside George Russell in a second car.

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Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#151

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 6 years ago Post Spanish GP Testing.

There will be a two day test at Catalunya immediately following the Spanish Grand Prix. (Tuesday and Wednesday)
Good to see there will be a number of young Brits in action over the course of the two days.... Aitken, Norris, Rowland, Turvey and Russell, although the latter will be testing for Pirelli in a second Force India.
Another Brit announced to be taking part in the tests is Jake Dennis having a go in the Red Bull on Wednesday. ;) Max is driving today(Tuesday)

Full listing of who what when, including the separate Pirelli tests are as follows:

Test drivers: Barcelona

Team Tuesday Wednesday

Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton Valtteri Bottas

Ferrari: Sebastian Vettel Antonio Giovinazzi

Red Bull Racing: Max Verstappen Jake Dennis

Force India: Nicholas Latifi Nikita Mazepin
George Russell (Pirelli) Nicholas Latifi (Pirelli)

Williams: Oliver Rowland Robert Kubica

Renault: Carlos Sainz Jack Aitken

Scuderia Toro Rosso: Sean Gelael Pierre Gasly

Haas: Romain Grosjean Kevin Magnussen

McLaren: Stoffel Vandoorne Lando Norris
Lando Norris (Pirelli) Stoffel Vandoorne (Pirelli)
Oliver Turvey (Pirelli)

Sauber: Antonio Giovinazzi Charles Leclerc

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
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