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John
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#211

Post by John »

Bottom post of the previous page:

caneparo wrote: 6 years ago
kals wrote: 6 years ago What a chump Vettel is. His idiocy has handed his chief title rival an easy win and 25 points. There was absolutely no need for him to sweep over across Verstappen. No need whatsoever. Kimi made a great start and obviously Seb wasn't to know he was up the inside of Max, this is Spa 2016 all over again.

Well done Seb for scoring an unbelievable own goal today. And the icing on the cake is that he's achieved a record for Ferrari, and an unwanted one at that. Thanks to his idiocy today Ferrari have for the first time in F1 history had two cars retired on the first lap of a GP.

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I really don t get your point, what would do when you notice that verstappen started better than you, leave him the first corner or try to defend?
If there wasn t raikkonen vetttel would have kept the first position as he was well in front. for team sake kimi should have used more judgement. I hope marchionne sacks him for this hopless start
Of course you should defend your position. But any decent racing driver should know when he's beaten. They knew that it was going to be a problematic start with rain in the early goings. There was absolutely no need to try and settle things in the first corner. Even if Kimi had toasted Max and Seb into T1, he was never going to finish ahead of Seb.

Instead of playing it cool, and playing the bigger picture, he throw it ALL away.

To answer your question - yes, he should have left Max the corner. And Kimi. For all that we know, Kimi and Max might not even have made it through T1.
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#212

Post by caneparo »

All correct but you forgot that kimi and seb are teammates, and vettel is the ferrari driver who fights for the championship and had to win this race.
Maybe raikkonen forgot this too.
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#213

Post by John »

1) Vettel fluffed the start.
2) Max would have beaten him into T1.
3) Kimi would have beaten him as well, if Vettel had played it cool, he would have gotten the position back.
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#214

Post by caneparo »

Not true. Vettel was anead of verstappen. He was rammed in by raikkonen. It was raikkonen who had to play it safe instead of destroying vettels championship.
Sack him please
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#215

Post by kals »

And yet again we're attempting to defend the indefensible. I get loyalty and all that but this is another obvious situation with zero doubt as to who is the guilty party. And yet here we are.
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#216

Post by John »

Why don't we just freeze the the field for the first lap?
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#217

Post by caneparo »

kals wrote: 6 years ago And yet again we're attempting to defend the indefensible. I get loyalty and all that but this is another obvious situation with zero doubt as to who is the guilty party. And yet here we are.
Yea because in your eyes it was vettel who hit verstappen and spoiled kimis race.
Here the only indefensible driver is raikkonen that after the contract renewal drove with zero motivations and respect of his team expectations. His rsults after hungaroring are incredibly disappointing! His attitude is the same of a club racer going for the sunday glory. As a ferrari supporter i find this unacceptable, todays debacle gave me afeeling which i didn t have since jerez 1997. Marchionne said he would not tolerate another monza, so i hope he talks to the responsible of this debacle.
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#218

Post by John »

caneparo wrote: Jerez 1997.
Villeneuves fault.
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#219

Post by kals »

caneparo wrote: 6 years ago
kals wrote: 6 years ago And yet again we're attempting to defend the indefensible. I get loyalty and all that but this is another obvious situation with zero doubt as to who is the guilty party. And yet here we are.
Yea because in your eyes it was vettel who hit verstappen and spoiled kimis race.
Here the only indefensible driver is raikkonen that after the contract renewal drove with zero motivations and respect of his team expectations. His rsults after hungaroring are incredibly disappointing! His attitude is the same of a club racer going for the sunday glory. As a ferrari supporter i find this unacceptable, todays debacle gave me afeeling which i didn t have since jerez 1997. Marchionne said he would not tolerate another monza, so i hope he talks to the responsible of this debacle.
In my eyes you say? That's a strange analogy considering I never made mention of anyone hitting anyone else.

Here's the thing. Vettel's actions caused the contact between Kimi and Verstappen. Without him seeeping across infront Verstappen the accident wouldn't have happened. End of story, case closed.
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#220

Post by caneparo »

The race direction deemed it a racing accident and you say it s vettels fault. Happy yourself.
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#221

Post by John »

A racing incident may still have an aggressor.
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#222

Post by caneparo »

There is in fact no aggression. Vettels defense was legal, as legal was verstappen keeping the line.
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#223

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They only called it a racing deal because anything else would have resulted in more penalty points for Seb and the ambiguous title of the first person to be banned under the new system if he wa't really, really good next time out.
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#224

Post by kals »

caneparo wrote: 6 years ago The race direction deemed it a racing accident and you say it s vettels fault. Happy yourself.
Yes and? Like at Spa in 2016 when the stewards deemed the first corner collision between the Ferrari pair and Max a racing incident and no driver deserved a penalty, it was still Vettel's fault.

Yet in this case you are blaming Kimi. Which makes no sense whatsoever.
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#225

Post by Antonov »

You can blame Kimi for being lacklustre and average. But I can't recall Kimi driving dirty or getting involved in contentious crashes.
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#226

Post by caneparo »

kals wrote: 6 years ago Yet in this case you are blaming Kimi. Which makes no sense whatsoever.
I don t know if there something wrong with my english but i m not blaming kimi for the accident not finding anynone s fault (differently from you who always try to blame vettel for whatever problem he has)
I m blaming the fact that since signing the contract did nothing of what the team expects from him, and today he put himself in a dangerous situation which resulted in disaster
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