Will Kimi Raikkonen win a GP before the end of his career?

[kals]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Nico wasn't an undeserving champion, there is no such thing.

There are some people who say his father was an undeserving champion as well. He basically picked up enough of the crumbs to be the champion pigeon, after the best driver in the field killed himself, his team mate smashed up his legs and none of the turbo cars could make it to the end of the races due to unreliability. 1982 should have been Prost's year.

Prost 1982
Prost 1983
Prost 1984
Mansell 1986
Senna 1989
Senna 1993
Hill 1994
Schumacher 1997
Montoya 2003
Raikkonen 2005

...the list could go on. Instead I'll just repost this bit

Some titles have winners who worked harder than their peers, some titles have winners who haven't. There are plenty of examples of both through F1 history.

"Deserve" is such a subjective word. Nico, like his father before him, became champion through consistency while his competitors were suffering from bad luck or unreliability.

Indeed. Well said.

This may be the wrong thread, but I like that we are having a mature conversation about it!

Here's the original thread from a few years back

viewtopic.php?p=300859#p300859

[DoubleFart]

Nico was champion because his car allowed him to take second on his off days. Look at Bottas and you'll see how those off days would have been if Ferrari and Red Bull bad been closer.

[XcraigX]

Nico was champion because his car allowed him to take second on his off days. Look at Bottas and you'll see how those off days would have been if Ferrari and Red Bull bad been closer.

While I agree that the competition has caught up quite a bit, I don't know if that is a good analogy. Nico was a better racer than Valtteri. I think he pushed Hamilton more.

Think about how close the Mercedes were to each other 2014-2016. Not so much since Bottas took over the second seat. There are moments here and there from 2017 to present, but almost every race Hamilton was racing Nico for the win 14-16.

[DoubleFart]

Oh I'm not putting Bottas on Nico's level - he's tier three, whilst the Rosbergs and Buttons are tier 2. Schumi, Senna, Prost and Hamilton are tier one.

[kals]

but almost every race Hamilton was racing Nico for the win 14-16.

That's debatable...

2014
Australia, Hamilton has PU issues from lap one and retires
Monaco, Nico has his dubious qualifying "off"
Germany, Hamilton has to start at the back of the grid after break failure during qualifying

2015
Monaco, Hamilton in command but pit stop mix up under late SC demotes him to third
Mexico-Brazil-Abu Dhabi, Hamilton has wrapped up the title and has backed off

2016
Australia, Vettel in control of race until Ferrari tyre change error under red flag hands race to Nico
Bahrain, Vettel pulls off on warm up lap then Hamilton is hit by Bottas at turn 1
China, Hamilton has PU issues in qualifying and has to start at the back of the grid
Russia, Hamilton has PU issues which means he cannot set a time in Q3 then has further PU issues during race
Belgium, Hamilton takes PU grid penalty and starts from the back of the grid

That's a significant number of wins where Nico was unchallenged by either his team mate or any of the other drivers.

[XcraigX]

but almost every race Hamilton was racing Nico for the win 14-16.

That's debatable...

2014
Australia, Hamilton has PU issues from lap one and retires
Monaco, Nico has his dubious qualifying "off"
Germany, Hamilton has to start at the back of the grid after break failure during qualifying

2015
Monaco, Hamilton in command but pit stop mix up under late SC demotes him to third
Mexico-Brazil-Abu Dhabi, Hamilton has wrapped up the title and has backed off

2016
Australia, Vettel in control of race until Ferrari tyre change error under red flag hands race to Nico
Bahrain, Vettel pulls off on warm up lap then Hamilton is hit by Bottas at turn 1
China, Hamilton has PU issues in qualifying and has to start at the back of the grid
Russia, Hamilton has PU issues which means he cannot set a time in Q3 then has further PU issues during race
Belgium, Hamilton takes PU grid penalty and starts from the back of the grid

That's a significant number of wins where Nico was unchallenged by either his team mate or any of the other drivers.

Perhaps I was not clear. Nico was almost as fast as Hamilton in the same car where Bottas is not. I did not mean it literally that they were racing for the lead each race. More like when they were 1-2, it was an actual race between Hamilton and Nico. This is in contrast with Bottas performance where it seems he can't keep up. This has changed a bit this year where we see him faster on occasion, but still a ways back on many tracks.

[DoubleFart]

When Hamilton was on pole, Rosberg was behind by:
0.2
0.1
0.3
0.1
0.6
0.3
0.5
0.5
0.2
0.3
0.1
0.3

That's SEVEN times that he was over quarter of a second slower, and yes EVERY SINGLE ONE of those was second place on the grid. (One had a 5 place penalty applied)

Bottas:

0.1 (Second)
0.1 (Second)
0.3 (Second)
0.5 (3rd place)

0.6 tenths down on Hamilton in Japan was 6th on the grid.
0.6 tenths down on Hamilton in Belgium was 6th on the grid.
0.6 tenths down on Hamilton in Italy was 6th on the grid.

Rosberg had so much leeway with his often shite performances in Quali that even a crap lap was 2nd. The above is exactly why I don't rate his championship - his bad days were 2nd place. His good days were 1st. In 2017, 2018 and 2019, your bad day is fourth or fifth.

[Cheeveer]

I don't think Kimi Räikkönen will win another race.

[DoubleFart]

Do you have any thoughts on the religion of the next pope, or where bears shit perhaps?

[XcraigX]

[Antonov]

shouldn't he just retire? I find it painful to watch really.

[erwin greven]

Too valuable for Alfa. Its Alfa that is failing since the Russian GP. Not Kimi.

[PTRACER]

Too valuable for Alfa. Its Alfa that is failing since the Russian GP. Not Kimi.

I think his motivation has slipped though. If the car is crap Kimi just stops caring and it shows in his driving.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Too valuable for Alfa. Its Alfa that is failing since the Russian GP. Not Kimi.

I think his motivation has slipped though. If the car is crap Kimi just stops caring and it shows in his driving.

I would agree his motivation has slipped, but when you take into consideration he was in a race winning car (and winning) this time last year, started this year in a car capable of good points every race (he was 6th in the WDC going into Monaco) was still in the top 8 after Hungary, despite in Germany losing 6 points for the clutch pedal protest thing and since then the car has just not been capable of anything, not scoring a point since then. Yet, given the opportunity he is still feisty given the opportunity, running in the top 10 solidly at the USGP where he showed his racecraft is still there dicing side by side through corners with Hulkenberg, giving Hulk plenty of room where others would have run Hulk off the outside of the track, before dropping to 11th by the end of the race.

He still has great pace when the car is half decent. He still leads Gio 31-4 in points this year and still comfortable leads him in race finish positions, although Gio has got closer to him in qualy of late Im sure he will hang around for next year, perhaps in hope Alfa will come up with something he and Gio can use and develop through the season.

He has certainly become a much more family orientated man now, and grear to see his kids and wife were always at his side in closer races.
I will miss him and I think F1 will too after it is all over. At least after mid season next year he will become the driver with the highest number of GP starts, eclipsing Rubens 323. (Currently Kimi is going into 312) Not that it will mean anything or be a target to him.

I think he still loves the racing but hates the commercial/PR commitments that go with F1, although I believe his contract allows him plenty of flexibility in that area. Certainly as he often says he is no longer in it for the money and he still loves the driving / is in it for the racing only.

[XcraigX]

At least he is in the nices looking car on the grid.

[mariosapegno]

I hope he does. He had always been my favorite driver.